Noisy Closed Loop

**golfish** · 01-05-2003, 08:41 AM

Scott,
Try lowering the pump about a foot or two. Its not going to make much difference on the GPH and you might get a better infeed going to the pump this way, Maybe

***Reefland*** · 01-05-2003, 03:58 PM

golfish,

I started with the pump running about 1.5' lower than it currently is; no dice. I guess you mentioned this thinking that the lower drop on the infeed might make it a bit easier on teh pump thus reducing the noise or possibility of the water cavitating through the input?

organicreefer,

Changing where it reduces at is I guess, the last viable option. I thought about this last night but the thought of making another trip to the plumbing section at the hardware store is making me ill right now.

The pump itself is quiet; I checked all of the internals last night and everything was fine. I fired it up for a brief second dry, no noises. When I used the pump for my return, it was very quiet. Additionally, I tried to submerse this pump while running on the closed loop and it was still noisy, so that eliminates our prior discussion.

Ltspd,

I wish I could tell you either way however I haven't been able to open the ball valve.

Thanks all for your input,

Lunchbucket · 01-05-2003, 04:53 PM

did you check the impeller? is it broke in 2? but then again you checked it dry and no noise. i would reduce the 1" outlet to 3/4" for more backpressure also. just a try

Lunchbucket

**golfish** · 01-07-2003, 10:52 AM

Did you guys read the foot note in the new Marine Depot catalog? The say that Mag pumps are not recommended to be used externally for saltwater tanks.

Not ask me why. I just thought I'd post this.

organicreefer · 01-07-2003, 10:57 AM

i been saying it all along.........they have a tendency to leak and are noisy.

**golfish** · 01-07-2003, 08:10 PM

Organic,
I've read what you have said but I have one running externally with no leaks, no noise, no problems and so do a LOT of other people.

Notice that MD said Saltwater not just externally. I agree that saltwater may be tougher on pumps but its not going to have anything to do with leaking and noise over say fresh water for awhile.

organicreefer · 01-07-2003, 08:14 PM

golfish,
do a search on some of the other boards(and now this one too)-youll see alot of people complaining about chattering(hmmmmm like scott

)and leaking from externally mounted mags-not the best external pumps.

Ltspd · 01-07-2003, 08:24 PM

I think we should all convert our Mag's running on skimmers, reactors and whatever else to Large pumps like AM3000's WITH 1-1/2" or greater plumbing.

I know I would sleep better at night!

organicreefer · 01-07-2003, 08:28 PM

i have two mags in my setup(in sump)-one(the 18) has failed already after about ten months and had to be replaced.

not bad pumps for the price -but i wouldnt run one externally -im not telling you not to -do whatever you like.

Ltspd · 01-07-2003, 08:46 PM

Some people are just lucky

jeff967 · 01-07-2003, 09:19 PM

I must be realy lucky, mag 24,18 ,9,7,5,3 all external, imho best bang for the buck

**golfish** · 01-08-2003, 10:22 AM

Pauls right, we're just lucky...

Organic, you missed the point again. MD is saying they shouldn't be ran externally on saltwater tanks. Why only saltwater?

organicreefer · 01-08-2003, 08:34 PM

no i didnt miss the point -i dont really give a darn what MD says about the pumps-theyve probably had alot of complaints/returns-if you want to know shoot em an email.

ive heard from plenty of people that they are noisy when used externally and are prone to leak.(did any of you search around at all-do i have to do everything for you?

?)

now scott is reporting the same noisy stuff-proof enough for me -i dont need anymore.

talk about lucky.......my lfs has TWO rio 2500's mounted externally running berlin skimmers for way over two years!!!! there on one of his $$clam$$ displays!!ive warned him hes gonna pollute his tank but he laughs at me and so far hes right.

and no -i wouldnt do that either

**golfish** · 01-08-2003, 09:04 PM

The next thing your going to say is the Amp Masters shouldn't be used externally because they make noise and or leak ....

Man!!! I must be lucky with my AM3k too

organicreefer · 01-08-2003, 09:13 PM

hey IM the one whos lucky with his am3k-i still havent changed my seals out

although i do have a bit of saltcreep

Ltspd · 01-08-2003, 09:14 PM

Mark,
I anxiously await the Zen Masters reply, but I think you are ok on days that end in "Y"

organicreefer · 01-08-2003, 09:20 PM

hey mark -how about that garcia and that no huddle offense he was running in the comeback--ice in his veins i tell ya

what a game!!!

(330 yds pass 70 yards rush and 3 tds

)

**golfish** · 01-08-2003, 11:42 PM

I like it very much. Its about time he showed some spunk. He's no Joe or Steve and probably never will be but we have to take what we can get.

platapus · 01-10-2003, 03:23 PM

Reefland -

I did this same CLS with a MD 1800 a month ago. Ran the pump externally, used same pipe size, and got the same results, sounds like there is air in the impeller. Too noisy for me to sleep. I submerged the pump, and CLS in the tank, while it is still very noisey, it is tolerable.

Were are you at with this problem? I pretty much just put this on hold, leaving it in the tank, until further investigation. I would like to put the pump outside the tank, if I can fiqure out how to make it run quieter.

Here are some pics of were im at - The are large pics, and may take a little time to load!

http://bluechunks.net/reef/12162002/IM000593.jpg
http://bluechunks.net/reef/12162002/IM000590.jpg
http://bluechunks.net/reef/12162002/IM000592.jpg

...plat

Ermin · 02-21-2003, 10:34 AM

Reefland,

A bit late for me to jump on this thread....I don't know if you had solved the problem. I messed with my Mag 7 for couple of days on a closed loop setup before I found out the cause. My pump definitely leaks at the cap. I used GOOP to seal everywhere possible. But still there were fine air bubbles on the return. I let it run overnight to see if the air trapped inside will dissipate...no luck there.

Finally I tracked it down to the connection between the cap and the threaded PVC. Zero water leak there and I even threaded couple rounds of telfon tape...but the finite gap is possible for air to seep in. This is on the output side of the pump. I just had to remove the PVC, re-thread with new tape and the problem is solved. The air leak caused the chattering sound and air bubble.

I think Mag are not recommended for external use mainly due to its high prone to leak. It does run pretty warm without cooling from immersion in water.

Even if my pump wasn't leaking...the way its sealing mechanism is designed....I'll seal it with GOOP or silicon still. Better safe than sorry to have the tank drain dry due to a small avoiable problem.

01-05-2003, 03:58 PM	#42
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,161	golfish, I started with the pump running about 1.5' lower than it currently is; no dice. I guess you mentioned this thinking that the lower drop on the infeed might make it a bit easier on teh pump thus reducing the noise or possibility of the water cavitating through the input? organicreefer, Changing where it reduces at is I guess, the last viable option. I thought about this last night but the thought of making another trip to the plumbing section at the hardware store is making me ill right now. The pump itself is quiet; I checked all of the internals last night and everything was fine. I fired it up for a brief second dry, no noises. When I used the pump for my return, it was very quiet. Additionally, I tried to submerse this pump while running on the closed loop and it was still noisy, so that eliminates our prior discussion. Ltspd, I wish I could tell you either way however I haven't been able to open the ball valve. Thanks all for your input, __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

01-05-2003, 04:53 PM	#43
Lunchbucket Tenant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 67	did you check the impeller? is it broke in 2? but then again you checked it dry and no noise. i would reduce the 1" outlet to 3/4" for more backpressure also. just a try Lunchbucket __________________ "Master of the Box Lunch" Check out my nano Other Reef Pics

01-07-2003, 08:24 PM	#48
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	I think we should all convert our Mag's running on skimmers, reactors and whatever else to Large pumps like AM3000's WITH 1-1/2" or greater plumbing. I know I would sleep better at night! __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

01-07-2003, 08:46 PM	#50
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Some people are just lucky __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

01-08-2003, 09:14 PM	#56
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Mark, I anxiously await the Zen Masters reply, but I think you are ok on days that end in "Y" __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

01-05-2003, 08:41 AM	#41
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Scott, Try lowering the pump about a foot or two. Its not going to make much difference on the GPH and you might get a better infeed going to the pump this way, Maybe

01-07-2003, 10:52 AM	#44
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Did you guys read the foot note in the new Marine Depot catalog? The say that Mag pumps are not recommended to be used externally for saltwater tanks. Not ask me why. I just thought I'd post this.

01-07-2003, 10:57 AM	#45
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	i been saying it all along.........they have a tendency to leak and are noisy.

01-07-2003, 08:10 PM	#46
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Organic, I've read what you have said but I have one running externally with no leaks, no noise, no problems and so do a LOT of other people. Notice that MD said Saltwater not just externally. I agree that saltwater may be tougher on pumps but its not going to have anything to do with leaking and noise over say fresh water for awhile.

01-07-2003, 08:14 PM	#47
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	golfish, do a search on some of the other boards(and now this one too)-youll see alot of people complaining about chattering(hmmmmm like scott )and leaking from externally mounted mags-not the best external pumps.

01-07-2003, 08:28 PM	#49
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	i have two mags in my setup(in sump)-one(the 18) has failed already after about ten months and had to be replaced. not bad pumps for the price -but i wouldnt run one externally -im not telling you not to -do whatever you like.

01-07-2003, 09:19 PM	#51
jeff967 Tenant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Monroe, Louisiana Posts: 56	I must be realy lucky, mag 24,18 ,9,7,5,3 all external, imho best bang for the buck

01-08-2003, 10:22 AM	#52
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Pauls right, we're just lucky... Organic, you missed the point again. MD is saying they shouldn't be ran externally on saltwater tanks. Why only saltwater?

01-08-2003, 08:34 PM	#53
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	no i didnt miss the point -i dont really give a darn what MD says about the pumps-theyve probably had alot of complaints/returns-if you want to know shoot em an email. ive heard from plenty of people that they are noisy when used externally and are prone to leak.(did any of you search around at all-do i have to do everything for you? ?) now scott is reporting the same noisy stuff-proof enough for me -i dont need anymore. talk about lucky.......my lfs has TWO rio 2500's mounted externally running berlin skimmers for way over two years!!!! there on one of his $$clam$$ displays!!ive warned him hes gonna pollute his tank but he laughs at me and so far hes right. and no -i wouldnt do that either

01-08-2003, 09:04 PM	#54
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	The next thing your going to say is the Amp Masters shouldn't be used externally because they make noise and or leak .... Man!!! I must be lucky with my AM3k too

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

01-08-2003, 09:13 PM	#55
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	hey IM the one whos lucky with his am3k-i still havent changed my seals out although i do have a bit of saltcreep

01-08-2003, 09:20 PM	#57
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	hey mark -how about that garcia and that no huddle offense he was running in the comeback--ice in his veins i tell ya what a game!!! (330 yds pass 70 yards rush and 3 tds )

01-08-2003, 11:42 PM	#58
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	I like it very much. Its about time he showed some spunk. He's no Joe or Steve and probably never will be but we have to take what we can get.

01-10-2003, 03:23 PM	#59
platapus Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 44	Reefland - I did this same CLS with a MD 1800 a month ago. Ran the pump externally, used same pipe size, and got the same results, sounds like there is air in the impeller. Too noisy for me to sleep. I submerged the pump, and CLS in the tank, while it is still very noisey, it is tolerable. Were are you at with this problem? I pretty much just put this on hold, leaving it in the tank, until further investigation. I would like to put the pump outside the tank, if I can fiqure out how to make it run quieter. Here are some pics of were im at - The are large pics, and may take a little time to load! http://bluechunks.net/reef/12162002/IM000593.jpg http://bluechunks.net/reef/12162002/IM000590.jpg http://bluechunks.net/reef/12162002/IM000592.jpg ...plat __________________ 225 Gallon Project http://bluechunks.net/reef/225reef

02-21-2003, 10:34 AM	#60
Ermin Tenant Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Monterey Park, CA Posts: 73	Reefland, A bit late for me to jump on this thread....I don't know if you had solved the problem. I messed with my Mag 7 for couple of days on a closed loop setup before I found out the cause. My pump definitely leaks at the cap. I used GOOP to seal everywhere possible. But still there were fine air bubbles on the return. I let it run overnight to see if the air trapped inside will dissipate...no luck there. Finally I tracked it down to the connection between the cap and the threaded PVC. Zero water leak there and I even threaded couple rounds of telfon tape...but the finite gap is possible for air to seep in. This is on the output side of the pump. I just had to remove the PVC, re-thread with new tape and the problem is solved. The air leak caused the chattering sound and air bubble. I think Mag are not recommended for external use mainly due to its high prone to leak. It does run pretty warm without cooling from immersion in water. Even if my pump wasn't leaking...the way its sealing mechanism is designed....I'll seal it with GOOP or silicon still. Better safe than sorry to have the tank drain dry due to a small avoiable problem. __________________ http://jean.yen.tripod.com/index.htm

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