Coral coloration

**golfish** · 02-18-2003, 08:42 PM

What have you all found to be the best MH K ratings for your corals color. I have seen a few of the experts hinting that the higher K ratings don't do anything for coral color. I saw a HUGE difference when I swapped out my 400 watt saki for a 400 watt 10k and the 250 watt DE 10K's for 400 watt Radiums.

I saw one expert post a picture of a tank running only 400 watt saki's. His point for this was to prove that the saki's don't turn corals brown. The only thing I can say is that most of the corals must have been brown when he put them in there because the tanks corals were about 85% brown..

What are your thoughts on this?

Mark

***Reefland*** · 02-18-2003, 11:08 PM

Here are my thoughts:

The bulbs that emit higher amounts of PAR and are pleasing to the viewing audiences' eye are the kelvin bulbs that are best for the corals.

Personally, I selected the 250w 10K DE bulbs; I am currently running a USHIO and AB, both similarly colored to my eye. Under this light, the corals are either keeping their current color or changing a bit (to the good) as has been displayed with a couple of frags I have acquired. In one case, a Brown M. Cap showed new growth and the rim has picked up a lavendar color and in other instance, a yellow M. Digita has turned more green than the yellow. Both of these were housed under 400w Iwasaki's before I acquired them. In addition to the coral coloration my preliminary results show, I also like the look of the tank.

As has been discussed, all corals will appear different under different types and kelvin temperature lighting. Again in my example, I am running the 10k's only; if I added some VHO actinic, the corals would not necessarily change colors physically but would definately appear to have more blue/purple to them simply due to the added blue light.

Now, I wonder about the lighting change you mentioned and do you think the difference in your corals is due to the kelvin change, or the wattage/intensity change?

Regards,

**golfish** · 02-18-2003, 11:46 PM

Scott,
The intesity could be it but I went from a high to a lower intense light. I used 2x250 watt DE's and 400 watt Saki and now use 2x400 watt Radiums and a 400 watt Ushio. Thsoe 250 DE's blow away the 400 watt Radiums. I didn't like the coral color I was getting form the 250 watt DE's. (I too didn't see a diff between the AB and Ushio) The Radiums are much better (for me) and since swapped out the saki for the Ushio the color has improved even more.

***Reefland*** · 02-19-2003, 12:29 AM

Mark,

Your saying you went to a less intense light in the way of PAR, but I wonder if the increased wattage is playing a role in what your experiencing. I guess due to the increased wattage, it might be hard to say if it is the kelvin increase or the wattage increase that is changing the coloration of your corals. ??

Scott Z.

**golfish** · 02-19-2003, 09:25 PM

Scott,
I'm about 99.9% sure its the kelvin. Since the 250 watt HQI's blow the Radiums away in PAR\PPFD and I noticed a big difference switching out the 400 watt Saki for a 400 watt Ushio. We all know the Saki blows away all 400 watters.

**kevinpo** · 02-19-2003, 10:34 PM

I had 2 400W Ushio 10,000K bulbs running side by side (12" apart). I replaced one of them with a 20,000K Radium bulb and the color of several Acropora sp. improved over the period of several weeks.

Regards,
Kevin

organicreefer · 02-20-2003, 12:22 AM

im going back to 10k.i feel ive lost some color since i switched to a radium.

example i have a monti cap that was clearly turning purple/blue under my old saki-since i switched to a radium its turning brown again

the blue tips on one of my favorite stags have also seemed to fade a bit.i had another stag that was taking onpurple tips -now its brown..

i like the way it makes the corals look -but i want to see my corals turn pretty colors-and imo INTENSITY is the key.

i plan on buying a 400w icecap ballast/ushio 10k.

**kevinpo** · 02-20-2003, 11:10 AM

IME/IMO it's important what ballast you drive paticular bulbs with. I haven't measured it but a 400W Ushio 10,000K for example looks about 20% brighter when driven by a HQI PFO ballast than the same bulb driven by a PFO regular ballast also the color is quite a bit different.

Regards,
Kevin

organicreefer · 02-20-2003, 03:47 PM

yeah different ballasts definitely affect lamps differently-but the question here is essentialy-whats more important ?-spectrum or intensity.

i beleive this question has been answered nearly conclusively-intensity is definitely more important than spectrum.

typically ,though not always,a 10 k bulb has all the light a 20 k bulb has and in some cases higher peaks in the blue end-plus the rest of the spectrum to boot.

20 k bulbs are essentially simply filtering out part of the spectrum-which makes for a good look-and replicates a deeper water enviroment(say 50-60 ft) quite well-but is obviously dimmer.

its simple-sps from shallow water in nature arent under a dim blue light-they are in practically full on sun -bright white /yellow-right?

all corals utilize the whole spectrum-and can modify their symbiotic algea to most efficiently use the light thats available-so its a no brainer -more light is better.

**golfish** · 02-20-2003, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by organicreefer
i beleive this question has been answered nearly conclusively-intensity is definitely more important than spectrum.

That's far from being the case for me and most if not all of my buddies tanks

organicreefer · 02-20-2003, 05:14 PM

well-its been my exp and dana riddles tests seem to pretty much prove it to me.

corals are able to utilize blue light most efficiently ,thats true,but they utlize the whole spectrum as well-its just common sense -the blue light is there -you just dont see it because of the presence of other wavelengths.

im ditching the 20k's-if you want to replicate a deeper water enviroment for youre shallow water sps -fine with me

take a look around -it seems to me the reefers with the best looking acros are using 10k's-not 20k's -jmo.

**golfish** · 02-20-2003, 05:36 PM

2 months after switching from 250 watt DE 10K bulbs to 400 watt Radiums my sps looked 10x better. Just weeks after switching from the Saki to the Ushio my sps look better. This wasn't an instant change, it was a change that took weeks to months. So I guess my test is pretty much just the opposite as Danna's

Just wondering, Where are you finding your info that says the Ushio is that much more intense then the Radium. I'm finding mixed info.

organicreefer · 02-20-2003, 05:43 PM

i dont keep a bunch of links handy-but just look at them.the ushio is brighter.im mainly going ushio because i like the way it looks on the ice cap ballast-nice crisp white -the best 10k ive seen.
i believe that all lights will probably affect all corals differently,but
20k's replicate light most closely to that found around 50-60ft- from what ive read-i wonder how many colorful acros youd find at those depths?

organicreefer · 02-20-2003, 05:44 PM

the color change on my sps was gradual too-gradually losing it

**golfish** · 02-20-2003, 05:53 PM

You must have gotten a crappy bulb...maybe we're just getting all the good bulbs here in So Cal

The test I'm looking at from Sanjay\Morgan show's the Ushio at 105 ppfd and the Radium at 110 ppfd. But its what in the tank that counts. I never pay much attention to those test.

I don't know how many colorfull sps you'll find at 50 to 60 feet...you must have miss read it again. I do know you'll find a whole tank full about 5 feet from where I'm sitting

organicreefer · 02-20-2003, 06:11 PM

radiums brighter than ushios?you have both dont you?which is brighter to youre eye?

my bulb is fine -im not the only one going back to 10k either-i know a bunch of people that feel the same way.

besides- isnt that radiums on hps ballasts-thats no longer a 20k spectrum -its not even really blue at all-so im not talking about that.also-i dont like the idea of over driving a bulb to gain an additonal 5ppfd-seems like a waste of electricity and bulb life -jmo.

you have alot of total light going into youre tank for its size too-regardless of the spectrum -how many watts do you have burning over that four foot tank anyway?

i cant afford all that

02-18-2003, 08:42 PM	#1
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Coral coloration What have you all found to be the best MH K ratings for your corals color. I have seen a few of the experts hinting that the higher K ratings don't do anything for coral color. I saw a HUGE difference when I swapped out my 400 watt saki for a 400 watt 10k and the 250 watt DE 10K's for 400 watt Radiums. I saw one expert post a picture of a tank running only 400 watt saki's. His point for this was to prove that the saki's don't turn corals brown. The only thing I can say is that most of the corals must have been brown when he put them in there because the tanks corals were about 85% brown.. What are your thoughts on this? Mark

02-18-2003, 11:08 PM	#2
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,161	I'll Bite! Here are my thoughts: The bulbs that emit higher amounts of PAR and are pleasing to the viewing audiences' eye are the kelvin bulbs that are best for the corals. Personally, I selected the 250w 10K DE bulbs; I am currently running a USHIO and AB, both similarly colored to my eye. Under this light, the corals are either keeping their current color or changing a bit (to the good) as has been displayed with a couple of frags I have acquired. In one case, a Brown M. Cap showed new growth and the rim has picked up a lavendar color and in other instance, a yellow M. Digita has turned more green than the yellow. Both of these were housed under 400w Iwasaki's before I acquired them. In addition to the coral coloration my preliminary results show, I also like the look of the tank. As has been discussed, all corals will appear different under different types and kelvin temperature lighting. Again in my example, I am running the 10k's only; if I added some VHO actinic, the corals would not necessarily change colors physically but would definately appear to have more blue/purple to them simply due to the added blue light. Now, I wonder about the lighting change you mentioned and do you think the difference in your corals is due to the kelvin change, or the wattage/intensity change? Regards, __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

02-19-2003, 10:34 PM	#6
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,460	I had 2 400W Ushio 10,000K bulbs running side by side (12" apart). I replaced one of them with a 20,000K Radium bulb and the color of several Acropora sp. improved over the period of several weeks. Regards, Kevin __________________ SPSguy On - On

02-20-2003, 11:10 AM	#8
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,460	IME/IMO it's important what ballast you drive paticular bulbs with. I haven't measured it but a 400W Ushio 10,000K for example looks about 20% brighter when driven by a HQI PFO ballast than the same bulb driven by a PFO regular ballast also the color is quite a bit different. Regards, Kevin __________________ SPSguy On - On

02-20-2003, 03:47 PM	#9
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	yeah different ballasts definitely affect lamps differently-but the question here is essentialy-whats more important ?-spectrum or intensity. i beleive this question has been answered nearly conclusively-intensity is definitely more important than spectrum. typically ,though not always,a 10 k bulb has all the light a 20 k bulb has and in some cases higher peaks in the blue end-plus the rest of the spectrum to boot. 20 k bulbs are essentially simply filtering out part of the spectrum-which makes for a good look-and replicates a deeper water enviroment(say 50-60 ft) quite well-but is obviously dimmer. its simple-sps from shallow water in nature arent under a dim blue light-they are in practically full on sun -bright white /yellow-right? all corals utilize the whole spectrum-and can modify their symbiotic algea to most efficiently use the light thats available-so its a no brainer -more light is better. Last edited by organicreefer; 02-20-2003 at 03:59 PM.

02-18-2003, 11:46 PM	#3
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Scott, The intesity could be it but I went from a high to a lower intense light. I used 2x250 watt DE's and 400 watt Saki and now use 2x400 watt Radiums and a 400 watt Ushio. Thsoe 250 DE's blow away the 400 watt Radiums. I didn't like the coral color I was getting form the 250 watt DE's. (I too didn't see a diff between the AB and Ushio) The Radiums are much better (for me) and since swapped out the saki for the Ushio the color has improved even more.

02-19-2003, 12:29 AM	#4
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,161	Mark, Your saying you went to a less intense light in the way of PAR, but I wonder if the increased wattage is playing a role in what your experiencing. I guess due to the increased wattage, it might be hard to say if it is the kelvin increase or the wattage increase that is changing the coloration of your corals. ?? Scott Z.

02-19-2003, 09:25 PM	#5
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Scott, I'm about 99.9% sure its the kelvin. Since the 250 watt HQI's blow the Radiums away in PAR\PPFD and I noticed a big difference switching out the 400 watt Saki for a 400 watt Ushio. We all know the Saki blows away all 400 watters.

02-20-2003, 12:22 AM	#7
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	im going back to 10k.i feel ive lost some color since i switched to a radium. example i have a monti cap that was clearly turning purple/blue under my old saki-since i switched to a radium its turning brown again the blue tips on one of my favorite stags have also seemed to fade a bit.i had another stag that was taking onpurple tips -now its brown.. i like the way it makes the corals look -but i want to see my corals turn pretty colors-and imo INTENSITY is the key. i plan on buying a 400w icecap ballast/ushio 10k.

02-20-2003, 05:14 PM	#11
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	dont beleive the hype well-its been my exp and dana riddles tests seem to pretty much prove it to me. corals are able to utilize blue light most efficiently ,thats true,but they utlize the whole spectrum as well-its just common sense -the blue light is there -you just dont see it because of the presence of other wavelengths. im ditching the 20k's-if you want to replicate a deeper water enviroment for youre shallow water sps -fine with me take a look around -it seems to me the reefers with the best looking acros are using 10k's-not 20k's -jmo.

02-20-2003, 05:36 PM	#12
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	2 months after switching from 250 watt DE 10K bulbs to 400 watt Radiums my sps looked 10x better. Just weeks after switching from the Saki to the Ushio my sps look better. This wasn't an instant change, it was a change that took weeks to months. So I guess my test is pretty much just the opposite as Danna's Just wondering, Where are you finding your info that says the Ushio is that much more intense then the Radium. I'm finding mixed info.

02-20-2003, 05:43 PM	#13
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	i dont keep a bunch of links handy-but just look at them.the ushio is brighter.im mainly going ushio because i like the way it looks on the ice cap ballast-nice crisp white -the best 10k ive seen. i believe that all lights will probably affect all corals differently,but 20k's replicate light most closely to that found around 50-60ft- from what ive read-i wonder how many colorful acros youd find at those depths?

02-20-2003, 05:44 PM	#14
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	the color change on my sps was gradual too-gradually losing it

02-20-2003, 05:53 PM	#15
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	You must have gotten a crappy bulb...maybe we're just getting all the good bulbs here in So Cal The test I'm looking at from Sanjay\Morgan show's the Ushio at 105 ppfd and the Radium at 110 ppfd. But its what in the tank that counts. I never pay much attention to those test. I don't know how many colorfull sps you'll find at 50 to 60 feet...you must have miss read it again. I do know you'll find a whole tank full about 5 feet from where I'm sitting

02-20-2003, 06:11 PM	#16
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	radiums brighter than ushios?you have both dont you?which is brighter to youre eye? my bulb is fine -im not the only one going back to 10k either-i know a bunch of people that feel the same way. besides- isnt that radiums on hps ballasts-thats no longer a 20k spectrum -its not even really blue at all-so im not talking about that.also-i dont like the idea of over driving a bulb to gain an additonal 5ppfd-seems like a waste of electricity and bulb life -jmo. you have alot of total light going into youre tank for its size too-regardless of the spectrum -how many watts do you have burning over that four foot tank anyway? i cant afford all that

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