reef tank

[nightmare11]

Help
I hava a reef tank that i had 2 different clown fish . They were swimming and doing fine no noticable disease or damage.We also have a lizard blenny and some anemone's. The clown fish all of a sudden started swimming crazy upside down and wierd. They died within 30 minutes. What could be wrong.It's a 55 gallon tank setup for 2 months. please help

[SteveP]

Help
...They died within 30 minutes. What could be wrong.It's a 55 gallon tank setup for 2 months. please help....

Ok, do you have some details on your filtration (Cannister, Live Rock, Wet/Dry, Protein Skimmer), what else was in the tank (Corals, Fish, Inverts, Crabs, Snails), any clue as to the water quality (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Temperature, Salinity).

Did the whole tank die, or just the clowns ?

Going for the knee-jerk diagnosis, 30 minute death is usually something catastrophic - Too hot, too cold, something fell in the tank and poisoned...

Steve

[Reefland]

Not sure but perhaps a lot of stray current?

[nightmare11]

Not sure but perhaps a lot of stray current?

The filtration is a whisper filter for 55 gal the only other fish is a lizard blenny. The water tests perfect for ammonia nitrite nitrates and ph. no coral no crabs just anemones and the 2 dead clownfish temperature is also ok.

[Reefland]

Did you test for stray voltage? Do you use a grounding probe?

[nightmare11]

don't know how to test for stray voltage or what it is. How do you do that

[Reefland]

If you stick your arm in your tank you will be able to feel it. It's probably a long shot but worth looking at, at any rate. A grounding probe should be one of those required pieces of equipment to prevent stray voltage from leaching.

Scott Z.

[nightmare11]

If you stick your arm in your tank you will be able to feel it. It's probably a long shot but worth looking at, at any rate. A grounding probe should be one of those required pieces of equipment to prevent stray voltage from leaching.

Scott Z.

Tried it feels normal nothing different. Will a bio filter help you think?

[Poseidon]

Nope. What Scott is talking about is ELECTRICITY inside you aquarium. Imagine dropping an extension cord into the tank then pugging it in... Obviously not that large of a scale, but I think that should give you an idea of what he is talking about.

Personally I agree with SteveP on this one, sounds like some sort of toxin. Do you clean the outside of the tank walls with any type of cleaner? Or maybe did you have anything on your hands when you put them in the tank? (Think aftershave, dish soap.) I would run a LARGE carbon filter for a while, hopefully it will help pull whatever got in there out...(If it was a toxin.)

Or... Did you add any medications? Copper can be toxic if overdosed. So can Iodine and Malachite Green...

[nightmare11]

Nope. What Scott is talking about is ELECTRICITY inside you aquarium. Imagine dropping an extension cord into the tank then pugging it in... Obviously not that large of a scale, but I think that should give you an idea of what he is talking about.

Personally I agree with SteveP on this one, sounds like some sort of toxin. Do you clean the outside of the tank walls with any type of cleaner? Or maybe did you have anything on your hands when you put them in the tank? (Think aftershave, dish soap.) I would run a LARGE carbon filter for a while, hopefully it will help pull whatever got in there out...(If it was a toxin.)

Or... Did you add any medications? Copper can be toxic if overdosed. So can Iodine and Malachite Green...

no i didn't feel anything when i put my hand in the tank .Yes we put medicine in for ich. we went by instructions tho. Guy we buy fish from said that ich got in from something we got from him probably feeder fish for blenny. Otherwise nothing. Yes he does use windex on outside but not anymore.

[acropora]

Two months is not a very long time and I wonder if your tank has fully cycled.Some more information regarding the type of filtration,L.R.,protein skimming, additives if any,etc. You did say you treated the tank for ich.The chemicals can be very tricky and could have killed your fish.The quick death of the fish points in this direction. I agree with the advice to do a water change and run some carbon.
As far as testing for stray voltage,it is best to plug every item in the tank into a GFIC outlet to see if it trips the circuit. You should have one for your tank;if not run an extension cord to one in your bathroom and test your pumps etc. They also make GFIC power striups that are very useful for this.

[acropora]

The filtration is a whisper filter for 55 gal the only other fish is a lizard blenny. The water tests perfect for ammonia nitrite nitrates and ph. no coral no crabs just anemones and the 2 dead clownfish temperature is also ok.

Is the whisper filter your only means of filtration?

[Poseidon]

Widex is a BAD idea.... No cleaners on the tank, just water. And what medicine did you use? Maybe it was bad. I'm inclined to say drain as much water as you can and basically start over from scratch, cause that is just to weird to have 2 fish flop over dead with no apparant cause... I agree with Acro... you do need more then just that whisper filter... I would scrap it and get a good Protein skimmer instead. Like a CPR bak pak or a Aqua C remora!!

[Ninong]

Yes we put medicine in for ich.

What "medicine" did you use in your reef tank for ich?

Guy we buy fish from said that ich got in from something we got from him probably feeder fish for blenny.

What do you mean by "feeder fish" for blenny??? Not that this necessarily has anything to do with your clownfish dying (maybe, maybe not), I'm just curious.

Did the guy who sells you your fish also sell you the reef-safe "medicine" for the ich that he thinks you got from him? Is he the same guy who recommends that you feed "feeder fish" to your blenny? Are these "feeder fish" freshwater fish or saltwater fish? Is this the same guy who sold you the anemones?

It's hard to imagine what might have caused your two clownfish to die so quickly without affecting anything else in your tank. Did you see signs of ich on the clownfish previously and that's why you purchased the ich "medicine?"

So this is a 55-gal reef-tank that is 2 months old with anemones, two different (dearly departed) clownfish and a lizard blenny with "perfect" water? No nitrates at all? I only raise that question because perhaps your test kit is not reliable.

I don't think your problem is stray voltage or anything else that would have affected all of the inhabitants of your tank. I think it had to be something specific to the clownfish, such as ich or the ich "treatment."

[nightmare11]

Everything in the tank we got from the same guy an aquarium store.The feeder fish are fresh water anf he told us to feed them to the blenny we now have a bio filter along with the whisper filter. He also sold us the ich medicine because another fish we had died and he said it was ich.We no longer clean with anything but water. If we have to put our hands in the tank as long as we wash and rinse our hands good enough will that cause any problems.for the water. Our water is still testing out great. the kit is from the aquarium store also same one he uses himself. Thanks

[Ninong]

Everything in the tank we got from the same guy an aquarium store.

This guy is not giving you good advice. For one thing your tank is much too new for anemones. It may even be too small for them, too, but we don't know that for sure unless we know exactly what species of anemones you have. It is almost certain that you will have problems with them if you have more than one species in such a small tank as they will conduct chemical warfare. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he sold you anemones that are not potential hosts for the clownfish he sold you. So many LFS employees are totally clueless in this respect. In fact, so many of them are clueless period!

The feeder fish are fresh water anf he told us to feed them to the blenny

This is a terrible idea! One should never feed freshwater fish to marine fish as they aren't adapted to processing freshwater prey. LFS employees push this idea on lionfish owners all the time resulting in the early death of the lionfish due to liver problems.

Any fish that requires "feeder fish" as a part of its diet is predatory and will be a threat to eat your other fish. Your so-called "lizard blenny" is more commonly known as a "sand perch." These fish are definitely predatory and not a good choice for a tank with smaller fish.

He also sold us the ich medicine because another fish we had died and he said it was ich.

I am not aware of ANY commercial medications for ich that are completely reef-safe except for adding garlic extract to the food. The effective remedies for ich (copper or hyposalinity) require that the fish be removed from the main tank and treated in a separate hospital tank.

Even when these so-called ich medicines appear to be effective in the main tank, they do not completely eliminate the parasite from the tank because they are only effective against the free-swimming stage of the parasite's life cycle and dormant viable cysts may subsequently hatch and reinfest any available host fish in the tank. Unless you were to re-treat the tank repeatedly over a period of weeks -- not a good idea! This is why the only effective way to combat ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) is to remove ALL of the fish from the tank and allow the tank to remain fallow (fish-free) for a period of four to six weeks in order to break the parasite's life cycle.

Our water is still testing out great. the kit is from the aquarium store also same one he uses himself. Thanks

I hate to sound so negative but there is an extremely good chance that the "kit from the aquarium store" is worthless. Eventually you will need to invest in better quality individual test kits.

[Ninong]

Everything in the tank we got from the same guy an aquarium store.

This guy is not giving you good advice. For one thing your tank is much too new for anemones. It may even be too small for them, too, but we don't know that for sure unless we know exactly what species of anemones you have. It is almost certain that you will have problems with them if you have more than one species in such a small tank as they will conduct chemical warfare. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he sold you anemones that are not potential hosts for the clownfish he sold you. So many LFS employees are totally clueless in this respect. In fact, so many of them are clueless period!

The feeder fish are fresh water anf he told us to feed them to the blenny

This is a terrible idea! One should never feed freshwater fish to marine fish as they aren't adapted to processing freshwater prey. LFS employees push this idea on lionfish owners all the time resulting in the early death of the lionfish due to liver problems.

Any fish that requires "feeder fish" as a part of its diet is predatory and will be a threat to eat your other fish. Your so-called "lizard blenny" (Parapercis sp.) is more commonly known as a "sand perch." These fish are definitely predatory and not a good choice for a tank with smaller fish.

He also sold us the ich medicine because another fish we had died and he said it was ich.

I am not aware of ANY commercial medications for ich that are completely reef-safe. Except for adding garlic extract to the food, all of the other remedies for ich require that the fish be removed from the main tank and treated in a separate hospital tank. Even when these so-called cures for ich appear to be effective, they do not completely eliminate the parasite from the tank because they are only effective against the free-swimming stage of the parasite's life cycle and dormant viable cysts may subsequently hatch and reinfest any available host fish in the tank. This is why the only effective way to combat ich (C. irritans) is to remove ALL of the fish from the tank and allow the tank to remain fallow (fish-free) for a period of four to six weeks in order to break the parasite's life cycle.

Our water is still testing out great. the kit is from the aquarium store also same one he uses himself. Thanks

I hate to sound so negative but there is an extremely good chance that the "kit from the aquarium store" is wortheless. Eventually you will need to invest in better quality individual test kits.

[Ninong]

Guy we buy fish from said that ich got in from something we got from him probably feeder fish for blenny.

Now that we know that these "feeder fish" are freshwater fish I wonder why this LFS genius would suggest that the ich came in on them?

Cryptocaryon irritans does not survive in freshwater, only saltwater with a specific gravity above 1.010. The closely related freshwater parasite Ichthyophthirius multifiliis does not survive in saltwater. They are practically the same except that one evolved for freshwater and the other for saltwater and there are minor differences in the length of their various life cycle stages.

You may very well have marine ich (C. irritans) but it didn't come in on the freshwater feeder fish unless he was keeping them in saltwater.

[zhenya]

I don't know if I could ever add anything more useful to this exellent advices by Ninong...except perhaps one thing that Ninong avoided to say straight out: Find yourself another store to buy your livestock from.
The guy you bought everything from is abviously clueless, at least judging by the things he did and said to you.
Perhaps just one more thing, if you really suspect marine Ich in your system,invest in a small quarantine tank,if at all possible. It is the only way to beat this parasite for good. I've dealt with it few times in the past and almost always ended up loosing all of the fish.
If you need advice on how to set up simple quarantine/hospital tank, just post your questions here and we can help you do it,I'm sure.

[saltjunkie]

the lfs guy is ignorant, and just doing his job... making sales.....
if the blenny didnt die, i bet it was the anenomes.....
most likely a condy, or another non hosting type...... your clown fish will still try them out....


secondly, the clowns were prolly stressed, being two different types, fighting each other for the chance to be killed first by the nonhost anenomes...