[ramous]

I read a thread about PETCO and PETSMART and how the workers in these 2 stores are not too knowledgable about the animals they sell. Well today I experienced just that at a PETCO in Morrow, GA. I noticed the store was carrying some peppermint shrimps for $5.00 a couple of weeks ago so today I decided to go get one for my 75gal reef tank. While waiting for help I bumped into a customer who asked me if I had a saltwater tank and I replied with a smile and a yes. The gentleman said that he had a 55 gal setup and was thinking about diving into the world of keeping saltwater fish so of course he had a few questions for me about how it's done. I gave him a pretty short run down about the hobby and how I've been in it for about 3yrs now with no complaints. I offered to assist him when ever he decided to go for it but he lived a little too far for me so I gave him the website for RAG and told him that he will learn just about all he needs to know here. Anyway back to the PETCO thing. After that conversation with the gentleman the clerk finally came to assist me. I asked for the last peppermint shrimp in the tank and she thanked me for helping out the customer in the process. I took my semi-happy shrimp to the cash register and the clerk rang it up as a cleaner shrimp for $22.00. I told the guy that there must be a mistake b/c what I had was not a cleaner shrimp (even though I know peppermints occassionaly take on the task in the tank). Also the picture on the screen at the cash register was a white-banded cleaner shrimp not the peppermint shrimp in my bag. So I politely went back to the fish department to let the fish lady know that a mistake had been made and that the shrimp should only be $5.00. To my surprise she stated that what I had was a cleaner shrimp and not a peppermint shrimp. I told her she was wrong and that I know for a fact that what she was trying to sell me was in fact a peppermint shrimp. I had her get out her fish guide and compare the 2 and when we did that she still said it was the white-banded cleaner shrimp even after I pointed out the obvious features that separate the two. My shrimp didn't have the long white antennaes or the white band running the length of the shrimp with 2 red stripes running right along the white band. Now I know I'm not an expert but I think I've been in the hobby long enough to know the apparent differences in the 2 shrimp. She also stated that she ordered cleaner shrimp so I took that as even though it isn't what was ordered, it's going to be sold as if it was. So I gave her the shrimp back and politely told her that they were ripping people off and as I walked off I told another customer who was looking around in the fish section to be careful. I went to the cashier to ask who was in charge but to my surprise that person was clueless also so I told him what happened and that who ever the manager is, he/she should check the suppliers because somebody is being cheated. The morale of this story is that research is the key to this hobby. If you don't do enough of it you will definitely get taken to the cleaners.

[Ninong]

Obviously the price of $22.00 should have been for Lysmata amboinensis (or L. grabhami), which is the cleaner shrimp you described. The price of $5.00 should have been for the Caribbean cleaner shrimp, aka the peppermint shrimp, Lysmata wurdemanni. Both are cleaner shrimp but people usually think of Lysmata wurdemanni as a natural predator for Aiptasia spp. anemones rather than as a cleaner shrimp.

[ramous]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Obviously the price of $22.00 should have been for Lysmata amboinensis (or L. grabhami), which is the cleaner shrimp you described. The price of $5.00 should have been for the Caribbean cleaner shrimp, aka the peppermint shrimp, Lysmata wurdemanni. Both are cleaner shrimp but people usually think of Lysmata wurdemanni as natural predator for Aiptasia spp. anemones rather than as a cleaner shrimp.

I agree with you on the two differences especially in price. The clerk had a picture of Lysmata amboinensis but was selling Lysmata wurdemanni for $22.00 and she also was advertising it as Lysmata amboinensis. Either she is clueless or she was knowingly using false advertisement hoping no one would notice it.

[Reefland]

Over the years, there have been a lot of dedicated hobbyist that have begun to work at local stores part-time t help the industry as well as help pay for their hobby. These individuals are valued to our industry and they promote responsible reefkeeping. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them working in the stores.

Most of these stores are filled with employees that have never kept aquatics; they saw a "For Hire" sign in the window and applied for the position. The only training they are given is to sell as much as possible, for as much as possible. The only aquatic education they have is the bit they have picked up since working in the store, which is typically mis-informed knowledge. In their defense, they are doing what they are paid to do. In our defense, it makes our hobby take steps in the wrong direction.

[Ninong]

Either she is clueless or she was knowingly using false advertisement hoping no one would notice it.

I suspect that she is simply clueless. That has been my experience with Petco employees, even department managers, in situations such as this. Obviously I'm not referring to their unconscionable corporate policies that have been the target of several lawsuits in California, which they settled by paying large fines and agreeing to comply with local laws against animal cruelty.

Here is a good example of the knowledge threshold you can expect to encounter when dealing with Petco: I learned that the Catalina Water Company http://www.catalinawater.com/ had started selling their filtered natural seawater nationally through Petco, so I decided to call the nearest Petco to see if they had it in stock. I figured I'd better call first since they're located about 25 miles away. The first two employees I talked to had no idea what I was talking about and they worked in the fish department. The first person told me she knew very little about saltwater and referred me to their "saltwater specialist." He had no idea what I was talking about so he referred me to the department manager.

The department manager told me that he had received 20 gallons of that Catalina Water Company water a few weeks back but they had busted two of the five-gallon cartons with the forklift, so they had only 10 gallons left in stock. I asked him how much it was and after he told me it was $9.99 + tax for a 5-gal carton, I decided I probably was not interested but I figured I would ask him why he had ordered only 20 gallons. He asked me how much I needed. I told him that if I were just setting up my tank, I would need well over 100 gallons but since it was just for water changes, I could get by with perhaps 20 gallons per month. He was shocked. He told me that wasn't what it was used for. He said I should drip it at night to replace the water that evaporated during the day.

After further discussion, it turned out that he actually thought it was some sort of additive, sort of an alternative to Kalkwasser. He couldn't believe that people would use it "undiluted" in their tanks!!!

[Poseidon]

LOL what a great story... Reminds me of when I was young I bought my fish at the local Meijers, (think Super Walmart) I wanted a clown loach, (freshwater of course) and the clerk coded it as a Tiger Barb, which was about $6.00 CHEAPER then the clown loach. So I bought 3!!! LOL I tried to tell her, but she wasn't going to listen to a 13 year old... Oh Well! I am sure more often then not the error is in favor of the store, but sometimes the customer gets a deal too...

[saltjunkie]

as scott stated i tried working at few different stores, even managing them..
but company policy and money demands out weigh the USE of knowledge that some may have, or try to give to others who are starting or already in the hobby...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by saltjunkie

as scott stated i tried working at few different stores, even managing them..
but company policy and money demands out weigh the USE of knowledge that some may have, or try to give to others who are starting or already in the hobby...

In the case of Petco, it was alleged that company policy dictated that seriously ill animals be placed in the freezer since that was less expensive than employing the services of a veterinarian! And I'm not talking about just fish here. Puppies, kittens, birds, fish, reptiles, anything that was so sick that it appeared unlikely to get better on its own was euthanized by being placed in the freezer. That was just one of the charges brought against the company by the City and County of San Francisco. I believe they were sued by San Diego, too. The various lawsuits were combined and the settlement called for a large cash fine and an agreement on the part of Petco that they would seek veterinary care for their sick animals in the future.

It was also alleged that the company did very little in the way of training their employees in the proper care of the animals in their charge. Petco denied everything but paid up and agreed to improve. In the case of the San Francisco suit, the City was asking that all Petco stores in San Francisco be banned from selling any live animals of any kind. The City alleged that Petco had been found in violation of pet care rules and regulations on numerous inspections but that the written warnings they received were having absolutely no effect whatsoever on their behavior. It's the same old story. The company claimed that any violations were not the result of corporate policy but merely mistakes made by individual employees. Sworn depositions from present and former employees refuted that lame alibi.

[NoSump]

I guess your not going to get in depth product knowledge from an $8 per hour store clerk (who sells fish, dog products, ferrets, etc.). Neither PetCo/Smart's prices are particularly appealing either.

I vew both retailers in the same fashion that I view 7/11 - for small, convenient, routine purchases.

[stang69]

The company claimed that any violations were not the result of corporate policy but merely mistakes made by individual employees



Yeah Right



I have to stay outa this one other than this comment



Jeff

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by stang69

I have to stay outa this one other than this comment

Well that takes all the fun out of it!

BTW, Happy belated B-Day!

[YoHo]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I believe they were sued by San Diego, too.

How incredibly and disturbingly Ironic........Go Padres indeed.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by YoHo

How incredibly and disturbingly Ironic........Go Padres indeed.

Webiste with photos of abuse: http://www.petcocruelty.com/

San Francisco settlement: http://www.petcocruelty.com/images/PETCSETL.PDF

San Diego settlement: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...1b28petco.html

In addition to various animal cruelty complaints, San Diego also alleged a pattern of customers being charged more at the register than the posted sale prices.

STEPS to follow when you spot abuse in a PETCO store: http://www.petcocruelty.com/steps.html

[Reefland]

That image is funny, never seen that one before!

[YoHo]

I was just having a discussion with some non-aquarists about Petco and Petsmart and the consensus was that:
1: they both suck, but it depends region to region which sucks more
2: 90% of mom and pop pet stores are just as bad if not worse.


none of which dulls the irony of Petco Park in downtown San Diego.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by YoHo

none of which dulls the irony of Petco Park in downtown San Diego.

Check out this message that is a permanent part of Petco Park: http://www.petcocruelty.com/padresballpark.html

[ramous]

Well based off of the links that have been posted I feel alot better knowing that something is being done. I now see that my problem with PETCO was not an isolated incident.

[Ninong]

On a more serious note, here is a link to three years' worth of complaints about Petco: http://www.petascript.org/mt/petcoempindex.html

Literally hundreds of complaints about the same sorts of abuse over and over again at Petco locations all over the country and, as you can see from the 2004 listings, the complaints are still pouring in even after Petco's promises to improve.