Nitrates still 70ppm

[toptank]

I have a 50 gal FOWLR and have been doing water changes every 2 week (15[img]/ubb/spineyes.gif[/img] and nitrates are still 70ppm? I change all filter pads and keep tank clean. I have started to feed less at a time and make sure all food is eaten.


Is there something I can buy to reduce Nitrates?

BArry

[Doh]

how much are you doing per change? anything less than 20% isn't gonna do much once every 2 weeks

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"Woo Hoo! Who would of thought reading and writing would pay off!" - Homer Simpson

[toptank]

My 50 gal does have Bio-balls and also LR. I do have a skimmer. What I wanted to do is take out the LR and make it a FO tank with skelaton corals. I just came back from the LFS and they told me that I could take out the bio-balls a raise them in salt water and clean real well including the gravel. I have been doing a 15% water change to no avail. My test kit that I use ffor eveything is Saliferts.

[fishrule]

Top tank, did they tell you to rinse/clean the bio balls? If so that is wrong. If you rinse/clean them all the bacteria will be dead and you will have to establish all that bacteria on the balls again. I was told to never touch, rinse them, otherwise the bacteria would die.

[Ninong]

Toptank ~

It is very difficult to run a fish-only system without some level of nitrates. Actually 70ppm is not harmful to most fish, although it would be nice if you could get it down around 25ppm.

If you are using bio-balls, you should not rinse them all at the same time because you will really set back the beneficial bacteria population. What you want to do is rinse only 1/3 at a time. You know those plastic net thingys that they put grapes in at the supermarket? You could use these to divide your bio-balls into three parts. Then you only remove, and gently rinse in saltwater, one bag at a time (at least two or three weeks apart).

You need to siphon the crushed coral substrate regularly to keep detritus down. A good skimmer is very helpful but you have to balance your bioload (fish load) with what your system can handle. It is a shame you are removing the live rock from the tank, because the live rock would help a lot in keeping the nitrates under control.

Your problem right now is that your tank is out of balance because of several possibilities:

1. You might have too many fish. Their bio waste is more than the tank can manage.

2. You might be feeding a bit too much. All depends on exactly how many fish you have and what type of eaters they are (any messy eaters?).

3. You might have a build-up of detritus in the crushed coral and in the bio-balls.

4. You might not have adequate circulation and skimming.

The bottom line is this: 70ppm nitrate in a fish-only system is NOT the same as 70ppm in a reef tank. It's nothing to panic over but it would be nice to get it a bit lower.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Ironreef]

True but I would try taking the bioballs out and rinse they clean. They can raise nitrates when dirty. You have the LR leave it in ,25% tank volumn should have enough biofiltration. And see in a couple days if the nitrates do anything. then If you still decide to take LR out leave a few pieces maybe for hiding but you may still need to rinse bioballs but only do 1/3 at a time. If this is your only source of biofiltration, later if it becomes a fo. This why you can narrow the causes down.

[Triggers]

often times its not so much a question of harm to the fish but mainly its the damn algae...that it causes.

[toptank]

Thanks for all the replies, but now I am confussed. SOme say raise and some say not too. hmmmm As far as algae,I have no algae problem at all! [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Fish, I have:

1 gobie
2 yellow tail damsels
1 small coral beauty
1 Very small queen angle

several nails

I feed twice daily. My chems are:

Ammonia 0
Nitries 0
Nitrate 70ppm
Alka 9.6 dkh
Ca. 310ppm
Phos <10ppm
Ph 8.6
Temp 79

I do a 15% water change everyother week. I dose nothing in this FOWLR except now and then a Reef Builder for alka and Reef Ca for calcium. LR is covered with coralline algae.

[fishguy_8]

well im not an expert like alvin (ninong) but i'd have to agree w/ what has been said......the filters are nitrate factories....i got a 20gallon tank and my nitrates are at zero the only thing in my tank for filtering is a dsb and some lr. not much lr. but some. i think you cancelling out your lr. w/ you bioballs and such. i know it's gonna be hard to say bye bye to your stuff you spent $ on i had to do it and i am glad i did........good luck
Jon

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Why is it everytime i go to the petstore w/ money i leave and its all gone??!!

[Triggers]

first make sure your test kit is working accuretly.

also check your water source for nitrates.

if everything is fine then just keep doing the changes it will take quite a few before the readings will be substantially lowered.
i am also attempting to lower from similiar readings, if not a bit higher.

[Ironreef]

whats your filtration? skimmer?

[Bughead]

Goll, Barry! Does this tank have bioballs too? If you're like me, you're probably wishing you'd never heard of the wet/dry system. Talk about creating a nitrate factory![img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

Does you 55 gal have a sump? If so, the solution is going to be simpler.

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If it's broke, don't fix it---hide it.

[Ninong]

Toptank ~

No need to be confused. Let's start over from the beginning. When I jumped in here you had just posted that your LFS had just recommended that you remove all the bio-balls and rinse then in saltwater and that you clean your crushed coral substrate real well. What I was trying to point out was that it would be a BAD idea to clean ALL of your bio-balls at the same time and suggesting that you clean no more than 1/3 at a time.

My assumption here is that between you and the LFS, a determination has been made that your bio-media may be blocked with a lot of detritus. In an ideal situation, you would have a mechanical filter in front of the bio-media (a foam sponge, for example) that would keep this stuff from getting into the bio-media. This sponge would have to be rinsed out often, but the bio-balls would normally be left untouched (and unrinsed). If you have been using a mechanical pre-filter of some kind, and your bio-balls look OK, then leave 'em alone. But whatever you do, do not take all of them out and rinse them at the same time.

Your bio-load is NOT very high based on the fish you have. You might want to try to get your pH down to at least 8.4.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[fishrule]

Top Tank, remember the only thing that you have to be concerned about is nitrites. These are the killers. The Nitrates are very secondary, and some people keep their fish with nitrates at 200 with no problem. If you rinse or clean the bio balls, then you might have high nitrites. Also, if you can do your water changes weekly, that would also help.

[toptank]

I do want to thank all of you for your suggestion.[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Ninong, yes I do have 2 sponges and a filter pad that gets the water first before going into the bio-ball chambers. The bio-balls look ok. I will remove the sponges and raise real well. I change the filter pad that is on top of the bio-ball compartment often as I see it on a regular basis where the sponges are at the bottom of the chambers which I have not cleaned very often, that may be my problem! [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I will do that today [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] and report back with the finding with-in a few days.

Thanks again all [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

PS I noticed that the bio-balls were not dirty at all?

[This message has been edited by toptank (edited 12-17-2000).]

[Ravenstar]

I havn't seen anyone suggest removal of the bio-balls, these things are nitrate factories in themselves clean or dirty. Although it can only be done if the LR stays and you have near 1 lb. per gallon. And it must be done slowly.


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<center>It is often said BIGGER is not always better, it's what you do with it that counts.
Email: fishies@ravenstar.com </center>

[This message has been edited by Ravenstar (edited 12-17-2000).]

[toptank]

Ok, here is what I did today. Took out sponges, heater, pumps,and skimmer and cleaned everything good. Also did another 15 % water change and with the water that I took out I raised 1/3 of the bio-balls. Sponges were REALLY BAD!! That most likely was a big problem but we will see later when I take the test.

I have very little algae on the inside glass. Haven't had any problem with algae in this tank [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Will waut awhile to do the test and get back to you all. Again thanks for the replies. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Barry
http://sandiegoreefkeeper.homestead.com/index.html

[Triggers]

yes ph is a bit high. 8.2 - 8.4 is a good range.
agreed if balls look relatively clean i would not do anything to them.

[toptank]

I took the Nitrates test using salifest test kit and the nitrates are 40-70ppm. After doing all that cleaning and still high? I am going to check with another test kit.

BArry

PS just took another nitrate using Dry-Tab test kit. It shows 140ppm? I have no food in the bottom of tank and no algae. I was under the impression that if I have high nitrates I will have a algae problem? [img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img] I just don't understand this? All fish in tank look real good, no sighs of problem with them at all?



[This message has been edited by toptank (edited 12-18-2000).]

[Triggers]

i think the consensus surrounding the accuracy of the dry tabs is that their not very accurate as compared with other kits.