How Do You Treat Ich With Garlic?

01-10-2001, 09:29 AM

Seems like my Red Fairy Wrasse came down with a dusting of ich. I really don't know why, I have made no changes or additions to this tank in months. Oh well, anyway, he has it. What is the garlic procedure that I here people having sucess with?

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

01-10-2001, 09:58 AM

When I bought my pair of perc's they had a slight case of ich. I bought McCormicks(sp?) garlic juice at the grocery. It is in the spice section, it is just garlic juice(it contains no oil or other additives) Bottle size is relatively small and inexpensive. **I'm at work so I can't look at the bottle to see exactly what lable says or what size it is.** I then soaked the food in it prior to feeding them. Soaked formula 1 and two, also prime reef flake and frozen. I then fed same as I would if food had been soaked in Zoe or Selcon. Continue this well after Ich has disappeared just to be on the safe side. At least a week or two. My tank is full of softies and LPS's and the garlic did not affect them at all. Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by 420reefer (edited 01-10-2001).]

01-10-2001, 10:06 AM

Baja ~

OK, 420reefer has already explained one method. Some people use Kyolic water-soluble garlic extract, that they buy from GNC stores, and soak the food in that.

Recently, Horge wrote an article on garlic use in combatting Cryptocaryon irritans in which he advocates the use of finely minced fresh garlic. Here is that article: http://www.geocities.com/horge1218/garlic.html

TerryB has an article on Cryptocaryon irritans in the Feb. 2001 issue of FAMA which describes the life cycle of the little beastie. He will go into his ideas on treatment in the next issue.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

01-10-2001, 01:45 PM

I have a jar of finely chopped garlic. The ingredients on the label are water, garlic and phosphoric acid. It has no oil, I added some to water to make sure. Do you think that would work to soak the food in?

------------------
We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

01-10-2001, 02:11 PM

I am looking at the ingreediants on the McCormicks. It contains Citric acid, guam gum, potassium sorbate as a preservative and sodium bisulfate. I would imagine yours is fine. Phosphoric acid is a preservative. Anyone else have an opinion? Justin

01-10-2001, 03:47 PM

Justin:

I'd use the Kyolic if you can find it, the fewer additives the better. It's expensive but your fish is worth it, right?

I used Kyolic on a cinnamon clown whcih although he did not seem to have ich was doing a lot of flashing against the rocks. After a few days of soaking frozen brine shrimp in the Kyolic he stopped flashing. He has not flashed in a week. I'm still soaking the food in garlic to protect the other fish should there still be parasites in the water trying to attach to them. I will continue for another two or three weeks.

A friend of mine read the article by Horge that Ninong mentioned and decided to use fresh crushed garlic. his tang would not eat it. I think it's probably much more pungent than the Kyolic. Probably harder to dose too.

As a bonus, a parasitic worm which had been hanging onto my tang since I bought him at the same time as the clown, fell off after a few days of dosing Kyolic.

This may all be coincidental but who knows. Good luck.

Claude

[This message has been edited by Claude Poole (edited 01-10-2001).]

01-10-2001, 06:31 PM

This Kyolic, its in pill form? or liquid? and how much do you add?
Keep the reef,
Napoleon

01-11-2001, 02:13 AM

Napoleon,

The Kyolic I'm using is liquid. The only "pollutant" is residual alcohol from the extraction process. I'm using 6 drops on the frozen shrimp and for good measure another few drops on the evening meal which consists of algae flakes for my tang and blenny. May be other people who have used Kyolic will chime in with their dosage.

What we need is a data base of anecdotal treatments and the protocols used. I will be glad to start such a project. Just e-mail me your data. I'm going to start a new thread for that purpose.

Claude

01-12-2001, 03:14 AM

UPDATE!
I have good news to report. After just 2 days of feeding garlic soaked food most of the Ich on my Red Fairy Wrasse is gone. 2 days ago he had a good dusting, and today their are only a speck or two. I will continue the feedings. BTW, I have been using the jarred finely crushed garlic. I put a spoon full in a strainer and squeeze the juice out of it.

------------------
We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

01-12-2001, 12:39 PM

Steve congrats on the save !!

I have used Kyolic extract in the past for my Goldrim tang... just a couple of dops onto a sheet of nori and it goes beserk on the stuff.... but thankfully, it hasn't had Ich for about 3 months (touch wood).

I agree it is better to use the Kyolic extract, as it is almost pure.... but heck, if your garlic works, WHO CARES !!!

Napoleon, the Kyolic I have is liquid, and the bottle only lets you add a drop at a time, so it is very convenient...

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Jamie [img]/ubb/bandit.gif[/img]

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Check Out: Reefing The Australian Way

Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

01-12-2001, 12:45 PM

Hi baja,

Terry and I agree that feeding with garlic drives off the parasite from the affected fish. But it has yet to be determined what dosage is required to kill the nasties.

For so long as you feed with garlic, your fish ought to be able to fend off re-infestation. So, if you can keep it up for a couple of weeks (my failsafe is 72 days, Terry's slightly less, and most others' 14 days), you can starve the 'ich' into oblivion.

Naturally, ALL fish have to be fed, so the parasite can't latch onto any of them. Also, any new introduction of fish or substrate can bring the parasite back into the system.

Hey, at least garlic is cheap!

horge

01-12-2001, 01:11 PM

Steve,

Just to follow on from Horge's comment.... this treatment will not kill the parasite...

From memory, the life cycle of Cryptocaron irritans is 6 weeks.... if you can keep the treatment up for that long, hopefully the parasite will die from not being able to find a host.... but I would not guarantee that by any stretch....

The only way I have seen Ich completely removed is to quarantine all fish in your tank... treat the fish to hyposalinity, and leave the reef tank fish free for about 6 weeks, enough time for the parasite to die.

HTH

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Jamie [img]/ubb/bandit.gif[/img]

------------------
Check Out: Reefing The Australian Way

Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

01-12-2001, 02:32 PM

Thanks guys! I am aware that the garlic is only effective to repel the parisite. Now what confuses me is what caused it. There have been no new additions to this tank in months. Guess that supports the theory that it is almost always present. The only thing I could come up with is that a possible chiiling caused the ich to get a foothold. The tank is next to a sliding glass door and it has been very cold. I have noticed the heater running a lot. Ironic, one tank needs a chiller the other more heating. I have added another 50w to the tank. BTW this is my 20 Eclipse we are talking about. You have to treat the cause, not the symptom. I have an extra 250w MH, that would surely cure a chilling problem[img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]A 250 over a 20 would make a nice SPS tank[img]/ubb/eyemouth.gif[/img]

------------------
We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

01-12-2001, 03:17 PM

Garlic,

It will keep vampires at bay, it will kill Ich, cancer and even improve sexual activity. Can anybody show me any "data" to support the hypothisis that garlic does anything but stink. I don't care what your opinions are, what is the data saying?

01-12-2001, 04:38 PM

An ich free pair of perc's is all the proof I need. Seeing is believing!

01-12-2001, 07:39 PM

cwa:

The article mentioned by Ninong further up does some work towards that end. Granted, it focuses mainly on Diallyl thiosulfinate out of numerous compounds found in garlic and its preparations, but it's a start.

Here again is the link to the article: Garlic In The Marine Aquarium

It draws largely on the clinical work of others whose opinions are held in high esteem by many in the field.
Maybe you too should care about others' opinions, since not everyone pulls hypotheses out of thin air, hehe [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

I haven't tucked into Part One of Terry's article yet, but if you have time, give it a read. It's in the Feb 2001 issue of FAMA, and probably further addresses your desire for supporting data and refs.

horge

[This message has been edited by horge (edited 01-13-2001).]

01-10-2001, 09:29 AM	#1
bajathree Guest Posts: n/a	How Do You Treat Ich With Garlic? Seems like my Red Fairy Wrasse came down with a dusting of ich. I really don't know why, I have made no changes or additions to this tank in months. Oh well, anyway, he has it. What is the garlic procedure that I here people having sucess with? ------------------ We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy. bajathree Come Dive Into Baja Reef

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01-10-2001, 09:58 AM	#2
420reefer Guest Posts: n/a	When I bought my pair of perc's they had a slight case of ich. I bought McCormicks(sp?) garlic juice at the grocery. It is in the spice section, it is just garlic juice(it contains no oil or other additives) Bottle size is relatively small and inexpensive. I'm at work so I can't look at the bottle to see exactly what lable says or what size it is. I then soaked the food in it prior to feeding them. Soaked formula 1 and two, also prime reef flake and frozen. I then fed same as I would if food had been soaked in Zoe or Selcon. Continue this well after Ich has disappeared just to be on the safe side. At least a week or two. My tank is full of softies and LPS's and the garlic did not affect them at all. Hope this helps. [This message has been edited by 420reefer (edited 01-10-2001).]

01-10-2001, 10:06 AM	#3
Ninong Guest Posts: n/a	Baja ~ OK, 420reefer has already explained one method. Some people use Kyolic water-soluble garlic extract, that they buy from GNC stores, and soak the food in that. Recently, Horge wrote an article on garlic use in combatting Cryptocaryon irritans in which he advocates the use of finely minced fresh garlic. Here is that article: http://www.geocities.com/horge1218/garlic.html TerryB has an article on Cryptocaryon irritans in the Feb. 2001 issue of FAMA which describes the life cycle of the little beastie. He will go into his ideas on treatment in the next issue. Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Irrational Exuberance!

01-10-2001, 01:45 PM	#4
bajathree Guest Posts: n/a	I have a jar of finely chopped garlic. The ingredients on the label are water, garlic and phosphoric acid. It has no oil, I added some to water to make sure. Do you think that would work to soak the food in? ------------------ We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy. bajathree Come Dive Into Baja Reef

01-10-2001, 02:11 PM	#5
420reefer Guest Posts: n/a	I am looking at the ingreediants on the McCormicks. It contains Citric acid, guam gum, potassium sorbate as a preservative and sodium bisulfate. I would imagine yours is fine. Phosphoric acid is a preservative. Anyone else have an opinion? Justin

01-10-2001, 03:47 PM	#6
Claude Poole Guest Posts: n/a	Justin: I'd use the Kyolic if you can find it, the fewer additives the better. It's expensive but your fish is worth it, right? I used Kyolic on a cinnamon clown whcih although he did not seem to have ich was doing a lot of flashing against the rocks. After a few days of soaking frozen brine shrimp in the Kyolic he stopped flashing. He has not flashed in a week. I'm still soaking the food in garlic to protect the other fish should there still be parasites in the water trying to attach to them. I will continue for another two or three weeks. A friend of mine read the article by Horge that Ninong mentioned and decided to use fresh crushed garlic. his tang would not eat it. I think it's probably much more pungent than the Kyolic. Probably harder to dose too. As a bonus, a parasitic worm which had been hanging onto my tang since I bought him at the same time as the clown, fell off after a few days of dosing Kyolic. This may all be coincidental but who knows. Good luck. Claude [This message has been edited by Claude Poole (edited 01-10-2001).]

01-10-2001, 06:31 PM	#7
Napoleon Guest Posts: n/a	This Kyolic, its in pill form? or liquid? and how much do you add? Keep the reef, Napoleon

01-11-2001, 02:13 AM	#8
Claude Poole Guest Posts: n/a	Napoleon, The Kyolic I'm using is liquid. The only "pollutant" is residual alcohol from the extraction process. I'm using 6 drops on the frozen shrimp and for good measure another few drops on the evening meal which consists of algae flakes for my tang and blenny. May be other people who have used Kyolic will chime in with their dosage. What we need is a data base of anecdotal treatments and the protocols used. I will be glad to start such a project. Just e-mail me your data. I'm going to start a new thread for that purpose. Claude

01-12-2001, 03:14 AM	#9
bajathree Guest Posts: n/a	UPDATE! I have good news to report. After just 2 days of feeding garlic soaked food most of the Ich on my Red Fairy Wrasse is gone. 2 days ago he had a good dusting, and today their are only a speck or two. I will continue the feedings. BTW, I have been using the jarred finely crushed garlic. I put a spoon full in a strainer and squeeze the juice out of it. ------------------ We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy. bajathree Come Dive Into Baja Reef

01-12-2001, 12:39 PM	#10
The_Bandit Guest Posts: n/a	Steve congrats on the save !! I have used Kyolic extract in the past for my Goldrim tang... just a couple of dops onto a sheet of nori and it goes beserk on the stuff.... but thankfully, it hasn't had Ich for about 3 months (touch wood). I agree it is better to use the Kyolic extract, as it is almost pure.... but heck, if your garlic works, WHO CARES !!! Napoleon, the Kyolic I have is liquid, and the bottle only lets you add a drop at a time, so it is very convenient... ------------------ Jamie [img]/ubb/bandit.gif[/img] ------------------ Check Out: Reefing The Australian Way Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

01-12-2001, 12:45 PM	#11
horge Guest Posts: n/a	Hi baja, Terry and I agree that feeding with garlic drives off the parasite from the affected fish. But it has yet to be determined what dosage is required to kill the nasties. For so long as you feed with garlic, your fish ought to be able to fend off re-infestation. So, if you can keep it up for a couple of weeks (my failsafe is 72 days, Terry's slightly less, and most others' 14 days), you can starve the 'ich' into oblivion. Naturally, ALL fish have to be fed, so the parasite can't latch onto any of them. Also, any new introduction of fish or substrate can bring the parasite back into the system. Hey, at least garlic is cheap! horge

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01-12-2001, 01:11 PM	#12
The_Bandit Guest Posts: n/a	Steve, Just to follow on from Horge's comment.... this treatment will not kill the parasite... From memory, the life cycle of Cryptocaron irritans is 6 weeks.... if you can keep the treatment up for that long, hopefully the parasite will die from not being able to find a host.... but I would not guarantee that by any stretch.... The only way I have seen Ich completely removed is to quarantine all fish in your tank... treat the fish to hyposalinity, and leave the reef tank fish free for about 6 weeks, enough time for the parasite to die. HTH ------------------ Jamie [img]/ubb/bandit.gif[/img] ------------------ Check Out: Reefing The Australian Way Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

01-12-2001, 02:32 PM	#13
bajathree Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks guys! I am aware that the garlic is only effective to repel the parisite. Now what confuses me is what caused it. There have been no new additions to this tank in months. Guess that supports the theory that it is almost always present. The only thing I could come up with is that a possible chiiling caused the ich to get a foothold. The tank is next to a sliding glass door and it has been very cold. I have noticed the heater running a lot. Ironic, one tank needs a chiller the other more heating. I have added another 50w to the tank. BTW this is my 20 Eclipse we are talking about. You have to treat the cause, not the symptom. I have an extra 250w MH, that would surely cure a chilling problem[img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]A 250 over a 20 would make a nice SPS tank[img]/ubb/eyemouth.gif[/img] ------------------ We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy. bajathree Come Dive Into Baja Reef

01-12-2001, 03:17 PM	#14
cwa46 Guest Posts: n/a	Garlic, It will keep vampires at bay, it will kill Ich, cancer and even improve sexual activity. Can anybody show me any "data" to support the hypothisis that garlic does anything but stink. I don't care what your opinions are, what is the data saying?

01-12-2001, 04:38 PM	#15
420reefer Guest Posts: n/a	An ich free pair of perc's is all the proof I need. Seeing is believing!

01-12-2001, 07:39 PM	#16
horge Guest Posts: n/a	cwa: The article mentioned by Ninong further up does some work towards that end. Granted, it focuses mainly on Diallyl thiosulfinate out of numerous compounds found in garlic and its preparations, but it's a start. Here again is the link to the article: Garlic In The Marine Aquarium It draws largely on the clinical work of others whose opinions are held in high esteem by many in the field. Maybe you too should care about others' opinions, since not everyone pulls hypotheses out of thin air, hehe [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I haven't tucked into Part One of Terry's article yet, but if you have time, give it a read. It's in the Feb 2001 issue of FAMA, and probably further addresses your desire for supporting data and refs. horge [This message has been edited by horge (edited 01-13-2001).]