EcoSysten 40 HO? and DLSB Support?

[bajathree]

It's time to get rid of the CC base in my 20gal. I ordered a 25gal to takes it's place. The 25 has the same base dimension but is 4" higher, making up for the additional height of a 4" LSB.
Know my questions; Since this tank is only 12" wide my LR comes all the way to the front glass only leaving enough room to get a magnet in. Since almost all the LSB will be covered by LR, I want to somehow support the rock so it is just not laying on the sand. What do you think the best way to do this is?
Their is also a second part to this ? I am thinking of replacing my Eclipse on this tank with a 40 HO EcoSystem.
EcoSystem claims to be a "Complete" filtering system, capable of nutrient export through the Macro growth, and denitrification through the use of it's "Wondermud". If this is the case, should I eliminate going with a DLSB in the main tank and just put in a thin layer of sand for esthetics or go for a full DSLB? Remember this is only a 25gal. we are talking about. I curently have about 20lbs. of LR in it and will be adding at least another 5lbs.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

[SPASSE]

Bajathree,

1 Support of rockwork is something that I used to accomplish with a product called “ReefTimber” alas it is no longer available. But sections of PVC pipe, buried in the sand and stood on end will also work. Drill holes in the PVC to allow flow through.

2 After some conversations with Dr. Ron and others, I was persuaded that an macro algae filter and deep sand bed were complimentary systems. When I talked to Leng Sy, he recommended against a sand bed, but I am convinced this was due to his lack of familiarity with “current” deep sand bed methodology. He talked about hydrogen sulfide production and other passe (no pun intended) concerns.

Two elements that a DSB does not process are Phosphates and Sulfates. These elements make excellent plant foods for the macro algae, and are exported from the system via plant bio-mass.
One condition though, you must feed these systems, or you will find that your DSB will out compete your macro algae for available nutrients and the macro algae will die back. In addition to target feeding my larger critters, I add a teaspoon of “Golden pearls” to the tank, every day. As a deep sand bed should be fed in any case...

As of today, for a system that is only 7 months old, my EcoSystem DSB hybrid has proven to be the most satisfactory system that I have tried, and I dare say that over the last 20 years or so, I have tried them all. It also requires the least amount of maintenance, and is quite forgiving of less than regular water changes. The only supplements that are needed are CA and ALK additions, and possibly a little extra Iodine for the macro algae. “Golden Pearls” contain quite a lot of Iodine, so even this is probably not necessary. But I do observe macro algae “growth spurts” after addition of SeaChem “Reef Iodine”.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

[bajathree]

I am just wondering since the EcoSystem 40 would be only be going on a 25gal, if that would enough to handle nitrate removal. Since real eatate is so precious in such a small tank it would be nice to have the extra room the DSLB would take. As for Phosphates even with the CC they have always been non-existant. Only lately due to expanded coral growth it has become about impossible to try to physon the CC and I am starting to get a Nitrate level. I do run a small in-tank Sanders skimmer on this tank I would be eliminating with the EcoSystem, again adding room. Just incase your saying why not just go to a bigger tank, this is the largest footprint tank I can fit in my kitchen. If the tank was larger I would not even think about the DLSB issue, but taking room out of an already small tank has got me second guessing myself, maybe the 40 HO is the answer to my real estate issue.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

[This message has been edited by bajathree (edited 01-29-2001).]

[SPASSE]

Bajathree,

I never try to talk people into a bigger tank, unless there is a “critter housing issue” i.e. the “Why isn’t my yellow tang happy in a 10-gallon tank, kind of question. Everyone has their own space, budget etc. constraints and lecturing them about getting a bigger tank is IMHO what the British call “Bad Form”

If I had too choose between an EcoSystem and a DSB, well that would be a hard choice but I would probably go with the EcoSystem. In a situation where I didn’t have room for a DSB, I would definitely go with an EcoSystem.

However “classic” (Bare bottomed) EcoSystems are not always very low nitrate systems. They seem to be able to keep nuisance algae at bay by other means, perhaps bio-chemical suppression, or competition for some other nutrient. But this is not to say that they are in any way “unsuitable” as stony coral environments.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

[bajathree]

I really don't see why, the EcoSystem on it's own wouldn't serve this tank fine. In this instance the LSB would not only take a lot of room but also get completley covered by the LR. If EcoSystems is right at rating the 40 HO at up to 40gal., I would think it should be more than capable. Hey, one nice thing about small tanks, it's always easy to make changes. If needed I can always add more sand to create a DLSB.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

[Schottman]

ok let me see if understand this right? with a deep sand bed live of course you still need a refugium without a LDSB???

[bajathree]

Schottman

A DLSB is always recommended whether your using a refugium or not. A refugium is generally a space with a lower current that allows Macro and other beneficial fauna, such as pods, to grow. This area is protected from from your tank mates and allows these beneficial organisms to grow and reproduce undisturbed. A refugium is complimentary to a DLSB.
What I am talking about here is a little different, I want to use a EcoSystem filter. It is basically a refugium with the only difference being the addition of "WonderMud". Even with this system a DLSB would be complimentary but since I am dealing with such a small tank 24x12x20, putting in a DLSB would take out 4-5" of space. This is why I am leaning towards only a 1" LSB and relying on the EcoSystem. I am not saying that with an EcoSystem you do not need to use a DLSB, or though this does seem to be debatable. Without any LSB you would need to constantly siphon detritus from the bottom of the show tank. The LSB houses detritus eating organisms which basically do this job for you. This is why I am still including a 1" LSB. A thin bed like this will not do much if anything for converting Nitrates but it should be able to support some fauna to deal with the detritus that accumulates in the tank. The Nitrate conversion should be dealt with by the Wondermud and nutrient export by the Macro.


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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

[SPASSE]

Bajathree,

My comment on bare-bottomed, or “thin bottomed” main tank EcoSystems not necessarily being a very low nitrate system was aimed particularly at systems with a high bio-load.

I have seen reefs where the EcoSystem was way under sized for the size of the main tank. An example of this is a 500-gallon system with lots of fish, with a 55-gallon EcoSystem. But these tanks and their inhabitants still are doing very well, with no nuisance algae problems.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

[bajathree]

I think this should be a nifty little system. I just ordered a CSL 2-65wPC ABS Hood for it. It comes with the new 8800k and a 7100K Actinic. It has a built in cooling fan and runs on seperate pwr lines for dusk/dawn.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

[Schottman]

Thanks for the info Bajathree, so with a LDSB in my tank, i would use a refugium to grow fauna and macro alagae and also havbe a lsb in it.