Hi All,

Some of you may know that I am using a no skimmer filtration method known as an EcoSystem filter.

I am also using a deep sand bed in the main tank and as the system is maturing, these two systems are really coming into their own.

When I first set up this system, there was a problem with the deep sand bed out competing the macro algae in the EcoSystem filter for the available nutrients in the system. The macro algae became progressively more anemic and spindly.

But now that my bio-load is heavier and my sand bed has matured to the point that I am feeding the entire system more heavily, the macro algae in the EcoSystem filter has really taken off. Here is a picture that I took on 02-01-01.



So, so far, combining an EcoSystem filter with a deep sand bed in the main has proven to be a synergistic system that is working well.

My current parameters are:

Nitrate <0.2ppm (below the resolution of my Salifert test kit)

Phosphate <0.02ppm (below the resolution of my Salifert test kit)

I might also mention that I have done very little in the way of water changes since the tank was started.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

it sure looks good but i got a question for you Sir Spasse!

I am working on setting up a 100 gallon tank! I want it to mainly be an sps reef tank. This is the filteration I was planning on using.
1. a 4-5" DLSB
2. A sump with no bio balls and an Evolution 500 skimmer
3. A refugium with a DLSB and macro algae

Does this make sense or am I competeing one against another? I am open to ideas and coments please do so if you have the time.

TIA

Schottman [img]/ubb/spineyes.gif[/img]

Scott,

I looked at your site with the "ecosystem"/refugium in place and wondered about the bio-balls on both the inflow and outflow portions. Are these bio-active (ie trickled) or mechanical for water flow (? sound reduction)? I am just trying to understand the system, and am in no way trying to be critical.

It would seem to me that this setup it would tend to function as a peripheral (we need a spell check <g> ) kidney for the main tank, by isolating the denitrifacation process in the refrugium (for the most part). If I understand the setup correctly you can get away with bioballs because the affluent is fed directly into the macroalgae tank where assimilation of nitrates by the macroalgae can occur prior to reintroduction into the main tank.

If this is so, why the bioballs on the ouflow limb.

Maybe the bioballs have mechanical function only in which case my questions are irrelevant.


Oh yea have you tested the water exiting the bioballs leading "into" the microalgae to see if there is measurable nitrates vs. prior to exit form the microalgae. I would expect there would be a difference, but suspect the test kits would not be sensitive enough to pick it up.

Thanks
Brien





[This message has been edited by Brien (edited 02-02-2001).]

Schottman,

Based on my earlier algae filtered tanks, (I have been experimenting with algae filtration since the early 1990’s) combining a powerful skimmer (at the time a souped up ETS) a deep sand bed, and an algae filter was problematic as the DSB and the skimmer left little in the way of nutrients for the macro algae. But also, as was the custom back then, these tanks were “sparingly” fed as compared to current practice.

So I would say that you approach is worth a try, just monitor the macro algae growth/health to determine if the skimmer needs to be throttled back or turned down to the point that it is an “oxygenater” as opposed to a skimmer. Also a skimmer can be handy during say the first six months of operation, until the DSB and EcoSystem filter have “settled in”. However my standby skimmer was never used. (I started this tank very slowly/conservatively.)

Also, one of the primary benefits of an algae filtered system is the fact that the naturally occurring plankton that the tank generates is not stripped out by the skimmer, so running a skimmer kind of defeats the purpose of trying for a “plankton friendly approach”.

Brien,

The submerged bio-balls are in my mind, one of the “questionable” aspects of this filter. But…

1 Submerged bio-media does not seem to behave like a wet/dry trickle media as far as being a major “nitrate factory” It seems to be inhabited by it’s own fauna community which limits detritus buildup. Purposely generating a little extra nitrite/nitrate for the macro algae seems to be a good thing. It does also act as sound dampening for the overflow output of the main tank. I might mention that I used the cheapest/slipperiest bio-media that I could find, (Lee’s)

2 The small amount of bio-media on the output side of the filter serves as a bubble trap for the return pump. This is necessary, as I am also using Durso standpipes which mix air and water, much like a venturi would. The water column in the EcoFilter is filled with air bubbles. I will keep an eye on the bio-media, and wouldn’t mind if it requires periodic washing, as this system should not be dependent on the bio-media functioning in it’s “traditional” (and now discredited) role.

Testing the influent and effluent of the filter would be an interesting experiment. I think that perhaps, just maybe, a Hatch brand kit just might have the required sensitivity.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

I've seen many tanks with huge skimming an alga tanks. If you have fish and feed them well the caulerpa will grow fine.

scott:

Very nice aquarium!

Do you ever export your macro algae? And would you consider exporting some to me in WV? Postage paid! [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

mgk

Scott,

Are you using the "miracle mud"?

Actually, the ecosystem just appears to combine the filtration of a dsb with the filtration of algae tanks. Algae tanks replace the function of the skimmer. (a good macro algae will do this very well, actually). You then harvest the caulerpa from time to time to provide nutrient export.....think of this step the same as dumping the skimmer cup.

The macro algae and the dsb have the extra benefit, however, of providing a refugium for fauna that, at various phases of their life cycle, have a planktonic stage. The plankton they provide feeds corals, ect.... So, you're exporting nutrients and providing nutrition(planktonic animals-zooplankton- for your corals) at the same time! [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Also, this fauna also keeps the sand bed free of detrius, ect..... Pretty nifty eh!

That's just my understanding anyway. Looks like it works well!!!!

-Mike

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Einstein once said that,"imagination is more important than knowledge". He was right. Imagination is used to discover knowledge.

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yes refugiums if have the room are good for all tanks. even if you don't have the room a small intank would be nice. some ppl just have eggcreate and keep caulerpa in there. When it grows out there tangs get fresh food. Bugs still have a safe place to hide.I have snails that breed in masses in my refugium

Ravenmore,

Yes I am using the miracle mud.

Actually is not a deep sand bed per say, it seems to only work best at depths of around an inch. It is more of a mud bed than a sand bed. Interestingly is populated by a fauna community that is slightly different from the one in my DSB.

I forgot to emphasize the refugium aspect. The EcoSystem filter and it’s mud bed is literally crawling with pods, spaghetti worms, mysid shrimp, micro brittle stars and various other critters. I used “seed” cultures from Indo Pacific Sea Farms, Island Aquatics, and several local sources. (Bio-diversity is a good thing)

The miracle mud is the subject of much controversy, speculation and humor. I have posted on this subject many times so I won’t belabor this issue. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] But here is a related thread that I posted in Dr. Ron’s Forum on Reef Central. http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...threadid=14336

An interesting thing about the interaction between the DSB in main tank. With this system, depending on feeding levels, it is possible for the macro algae growth to “stop” and reach kind of an equilibrium. I am playing with this “equation” to see how feeding levels, algae growth, algae harvesting, and nutrient levels in the system all interact.

Iron reef,

Given enough feeding, I don’t doubt that a skimmer could be added to the equation. But there are other ramifications of skimmer use that I am trying to avoid. (At least for now [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] )

mgk65,

I would be happy to send you some marco-algae, but shipping caulerpa from Colorado, this time of year is kind of “iffy” Can any of your LFS special order macro algae this time of year? Please advise.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

Scott:

Yes, it can be quite cold in shipment.

Unfortunately, my LFS can barely spell algae. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Maybe we can try when it is warmer.

Thanks,
mgk

mgk65,

Drop me an E-mail and we can talk about me sending you some Caulerpa.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/