Check out this thread for links to some interesting Japanese tanks that utilize two different types of acrylic supports for the live rock structure.

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...8&pagenumber=1

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

They have some beautiful tanks, that's for sure. The acrylic "stilts" are pretty neat. How would you suggest mounting them to the bottom of a glass tank to keep them from moving?

It looks like the guy using the acrylic rods as stilts had a plastic grid base with round holes in it to hold the acrylic rods in place. The other tank used acrylic U-shaped bracket-looking pieces that seemed to be resting on the bottom of the tank. I would imagine that they would be stable once the sand bed was dumped on top of them. In fact, there is a picture of that set up where you can just barely see the top edges of the acrylic at the top of the sand bed.

I saw one other site (American) where the guy used 3/8" acrylic rods to support his live rock. What he had done was to take each of the very large bottom rocks and drill holes in the bottom of the rock. He then inserted 3/8" acrylic rod cut to the proper length and secured it further in the holes with underwater epoxy. He even had a pic on his site of the pieces of rock resting on these acrylic pilings before adding the sand to the tank. They looked like little offshore oil rigs.

It is certainly something to think about. Seems like more work than the PVC sections, but it sure looks neat. I'll have to think about that a bit more. A have lots of time on my hands, so you never know what I might end up with. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Guess I'll have to go check out www.usplastic.com and see what they have. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Why not just silicon them in place.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

I saw the pics you mentioned, however I wondered if the sand would hold them in place once the weight of the LR was added.

I would imagine the best way to ensure it would support it is to place them on a separate piece of acrylic the size of the bottom of the tank (or 2 if needed), then glue the stilts to it.

I sure like this better than PVC. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks for the links Ninong!

Originally posted by bajathree:
Why not just silicon them in place.

Baja ~

You mean the U-shaped bracket-looking pieces of acrylic??? Maybe that's what they did. It's hard to tell from the pic but it looks like they're just resting there on the bottom of the tank. You could also drill 3/8" holes in those acrylic "brackets" and run a 3/8" acrylic rod through them to tie them all together. Then you could use that acrylic "cement"--or whatever you call it--to make a stable structure.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



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Irrational Exuberance!

Reefland
Ok, I'll bite. Scott, I like your idea. Do you want to build me one for my Oceanic 37? This should be a good size tank to try. Of course, if you want to build one for Ninong first, I would understand. At least it's go to be cheaper to ship than that order of LS & LR [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] Maybe it will be a new item for you to sell. All kidding around I am serious. I will shoot you an e-mail, let's talk.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

Actually, I think my new tank would be a much better choice for the first beta version. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] (Is that correct, or is their also an alpha version? I'm not exactly up on all the 'puter geek lingo.)

N I N [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] N G

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Irrational Exuberance!

Neat pictures. If you read the reefcentral thread these are not new setup tanks, They are kept very clean. Any Ideas about their lighting? what kind, etc...

I was reading a article this morning in the reading room from Dr Ron about sand beds. He doesnt suggest having the LR up off of the sand bed but rather embeded into it?


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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

Ltspd ~

Actually, you can read all of Dr. Ron comments in several threads and come away with the idea that what he is really saying is that the live rock must be in contact with the sand bed. So, if you look at the way the first Japanese tank was set up with the acrylic "brackets" resting on the bottom of the tank and the top acrylic edges even with the surface of the sand, you would be OK.

What Dr. Ron said a few weeks back in response to a question was that he did not think it was a good idea to elevate the live rock above the sand. Some people have it set up so that there is about an inch clearance under the live rock. They do that for two reasons: (1) It's easier to blow detritus out from under the rock to siphon it out, and (2) There is more sand bed surface exposed.

Actually, Dr. Ron thinks the sand bed will take care of the detritus all by itself provided you have the right critters in your tank (sand mopping cukes, stars, etc.) and in your sand bed. Maximizing the sand bed surface exposure is a good thing.

Ideally, what you want to accomplish is a stable live rock structure that is in contact with the sand bed... but not in too much contact, if you get my drift. You certainly do not want large flat pieces of Tonga slab resting on top of the sand.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Paul that is the way I did it on my 130. I pushed the rock all the way to the bottom of the tank. It worked great to hold the rock in place and support all the weight above it. The only thing is in a big tank there is a lot of open sand area for you LSB. In a little tank most of the bottom get's covered with LR leaving not much room for your LSB. This is why I find this method very interesting. It will still allow for a FULL DLSB in a small tank.
Do you have a link top the thread you are talking about, I would still be interested in reding it.

BTW NINONG
I WAS FIRST[img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

Maybe a few alpha versions would be the correct choice here. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

There would obviously be a need for a few large holes, or several smaller holes in each so there wasn't anything preventing migration throughout the sandbed. I don't think the holes would weaken the small stilts at all, especially once the sand bed was added.

Another thing to consider would be a variation in heights of the stilts. If you wanted to have a 5" sand bed, you may want the stilts to range from 4 3/4" to 5 1/4", just so the bed wasn't flat across the tank. I think a waving sand bed looks a little more natural. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] With this in mind, should the varying heights be next to each other, or should there be 2-5 1/4" stilts next to each other, for stability.

I would guess the stilts to be 2"w with a spacing of about 4" running parallel to the front of the tank. Perpindicular spacing would probably be about the same.

Hi all

Those tanks were neat, I'm supprised at the german lighting though - I would of thought they had their own design light fixtures (not that the german stuff isnt good of course[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]).

How do they get away with no cross bracing around the top of the tank???????



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"There can be only one"

Scott ~

You could make them in detachable modules that could be assembled inside the tank. This would permit getting them through the openings in the top of the various tanks (especially acrylic tanks) and offer flexibility in arrangement. You would need to construct them so that the lateral supports (3/8" rods perhaps?) would fit snug into the drilled holes and could be put together inside the tank. Then you could offer a variety of sizes for the "stilt" pieces.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

P.S. - I see that Baja has modified his original post to say it's OK if you build mine first. Thanks, Baja [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Nice try Ninong[img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]
To bad mine already has a production slot[img]/ubb/raspberry.gif[/img]
I am real excited, I think this is going to work out real nice.
Ok guys, keep making suggestions....construction on Reeflands newest inovation starts tomorrow[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
BTW I should say THANKS to Scott[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef



[This message has been edited by bajathree (edited 02-04-2001).]

Building on the flexibility that ninong mentioned, here are some quick drawings of a possibility.

The basic modules could be constructed in different sizes, say 4x4, 6x6 and 12x12. The stilts could accept either solid rod or small PVC pipe (would require holes drilled) sitting on top, and the modules could be linked together using the rod/pipe. The rod/pipe would even allow for more flexibility in the rock structure and more stability.

As far as varying sizes of stilts, after thinking a bit it would not be necessary. The tops of the rods/pvc would still sit slightly below the sand. The only thing to be determined is the lowest planned depth of the sand bed, so the pvc will sit about 1/4" below the lowest planned depth (if the bed was waving vs. flat).

Here is a top view of the module:


Here is a side view:


Here is what the stilt would look like:


Thoughts?
Scott

Baja, it si in this months Aquarium Fish Mag page 50. I have mixed feelings as to elevating it,leaving it on top of the sand or pushed into the sand. I have a mixture of pushed and elevated on my 55, but this is the worst tank to reef IMO. I havent a clue what I will do when I get the bigger tank, guess I will see at that point. I have been looking at pvc supports but the acrylic has benefits. Strength while minimal contact points but still would occupy the same area as a few pc's of pvc. So are you any better off? The acrylic is clear FWTW, PVC is cheap.
Man I dont know lets try and tie this into mh bulbs. What if it has a 10kk or 65k bulb over the sand bed, [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]
Sorry been spraying laquer on a pc of furniture I built and I am feeling no pain if you know what I mean. Yes I was wearing a resporator.
Ninong, I dont know about you but the anticipation of your new tank is killing me! Are you getting it tommorow?

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

Ltspd ~

Let's just say the tank will arrive in New Orleans around 6 a.m. tomorrow. I have to call the trucking company terminal at 7:30 a.m. so that they can measure the crate for me so that I can decide if it would fit into a Ford Explorer (probably it won't). Right now it is scheduled as "hold for pick up by customer."

If they send it out to my house it will be on a big semi-trailer truck and the driver will not assist in getting it off the truck. They said I have to provide the "equipment" or "unloading crew" to remove this 420-lb wooden crate from the truck. [img]/ubb/mad02.gif[/img] Or, they would be able to contract the delivery out to a cartage company that would have a smaller truck with a lift gate for an additional $150. [img]/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]

When I call tomorrow morning I'm going to ask if they have one of those long ramps that attach to the bed of the trailer. Maybe we can manage to get it down a ramp. I will have my bro-in-law and my nephew to help me with the thing. I had no idea that I was going to be responsible for removing it from the truck. And another thing, I have to sign for it before uncrating it! Then, if there is any concealed damage after uncrating it, I can file a claim for "concealed damage." This is turning into a big PITA.

I'll let you know what happens.

Ninong [img]/ubb/confused.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ninong
You would not believe the weight of my 130. It took 4 guys to set it in place. These are not like your standard AllGlass tank[img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]The way mine was moved around was with giant glass suction cups. Let me tell you, it was a good thing I supported my floor because the empty weight alone lifted an eyebrow. IMO it is defiantly worth the $150, not to cripple yourself for a week.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

ninong -

get more help. even if the three of you are gorillas it would be nice to have a fourth person. i had 3 highschool guys (not wimps) plus another adult and myself to move my 300# acrylic tanks in. my trucker helped only a little in removing them off the truck. he skinned his shin moving them around in the truck, and i was bruised and chipped a tooth [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] in lugging them around. most of my trouble, however, was in getting them down the basement steps.