snails dying! why?

[chinitoe]

hello again, i have about 10-15 trochus grazers in my tank. i add them 3 or 4 at a time. some i collect my own and others i bought. since the recent weeks, i have experienced 1 or 2 dead snails per week. what could have caused this?

i must admit that i dont acclimate my snails or other inverts properly. i just let the plastic float in the tank for 10 mins then drop them right in. could this be the problem? im really not sure if its the new snails that dies off or if its the old ones coz they all look the same.

the LFS here doesnt aclimate snails either and their salinity is about 1.019 and mine is about 1.023
i dont have bad algae problems exept the sand browning but its growing lesser.

how come i hear that some of you guys have about 100 snails, isnt it too much?

[scubadude]

Hi chinitoe
I just added about 24 trochus grazers that I bought from PA and I also added 55 Nassarius snails (small guys) to my 90 gal tank. I also collect my own snails from time to time when I dive. There are a couple of theories that you, or I could suspect as to why your snails are dying, MIA, or you just cant see them.
1. they could be hiding somewhere maybe? or possibly even subterrain snails (buried in the sand) my little nassarius are subterrain.
2. crabs are infamous for making a meal out of snails, that may be one of the reason why so many ppl get alot of snails, Expect to lose a few of them.
3. acclimation procedure might be putting them in stress, if they went from 1.019 to 1.024 that might be too much of a change too quick (For some snails)..now if it was just .001 or .002 difference then I would say no big deal. Also watch the temp. difference.

I have probably 24 micro hermits and 100+ snails in my 90 gal. and about once a month I see a hermit wearing a new shell....but I also keep alot of empty shells of mixed sizes in my tank scattered all over so it will give my crabs a chance to grab a vacant shell instead of ripping out and eating one of my snails. HTH

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Rocky
http://www.geocities.com/scubadud3/reef.html

Forget about World Peace.....Visualize Using Your Turn Signal !

[This message has been edited by scubadude (edited 02-25-2001).]

[SKRIZ]

I would think that it is because of your poor aclimating procedure. Snails are very delicate animals and can die very easily. treat them like fish and I think you will ahve a much higher success rate. The reason why I have so many snails is that I do not like to clean at all. So, with more snails, I NEVER have to clean my tank. I NEVER have to worry about algae covering my view...it is such a great feeling [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

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It seems like the more I know, the less I want to know.

[hcp28]

One way to acclimate snails that I just heard was to take them and place them on the glass and let them crawl in on their own. This way tehy expel their water and acquire a neutral bouancy before entering the tank, there won't be any salinity change because they have already expelled the water they were holding in the first place. I don't know exactly how this is done but someone in this board does this.

Henry

Found him Ravenmore does this. http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006466-4.html
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Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall down an open manhole and die.
-Mel Brooks

[This message has been edited by hcp28 (edited 02-25-2001).]

[jmick01]

ditto on the acclimating procedures. They need an acclimation of heat, salinity, and possible ph differences. If you can drip acclimate they will have a much better success rate imo

JMM

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Remember Fish are alive when we get them, lets keep it that way!!!

[Ace]

I used to have the same problem until I got some advice from Dr. Ron. Although I did try to acclimate them, I rushed the process. Since I have started to acclimate my snails in the proper way I've had no problems! Also my salinity was too low.
Ace

[chinitoe]

dude,i only have 1 hermit crab coz i removed them month's ago coz i see them attacking my snails. though i have a small hitchicker red n hairy crab that i saw holding a shell for a while but dropped it when i came close. i usually check the snails that havent move for a while then pick it up and smell it.

ninong, i just thought that snails arent that sensitive as fish.
thanks ninong and everyone, next time i'll acclimate them properly.
how long do you acclimate them?

[Ninong]

Chinitoe ~

How long you acclimate snails depends on how big the difference is between the salinity they were in compared to the salinity they are going in. In a case of going from an LFS with a specific gravity of 1.019 to a reef aquarium with a specific gravity of 1.023, I would recommend a long acclimation period of at least 6 hours IF I were faced with such a predicament; however, I don't think I would be interested in buying any mollusks or any other inverts that were kept at 1.019 in the first place.

You should consider raising your specific gravity in your tank, too. Your present 1.023 is fine for a fish-only system but it would be better to raise it to 1.025 for a reef tank. Since specific gravity is temperature dependent and I don't know what temperature you keep your tank, let me just recommend that you maintain your salinity at approximately 36ppt.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. - You really should read the article I linked in my previous reply. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Ninong]

Originally posted by chinitoe:

i must admit that i dont acclimate my snails or other inverts properly.

Why??? [img]/ubb/confused.gif[/img]

the LFS here doesnt aclimate snails either and their salinity is about 1.019 and mine is about 1.023

Don't pay too much attention to what the LFS may or may not do and you will be much better off in the long run.

Snails are extremely sensitive to osmotic shock (changes in salinity). The damage caused by improper acclimation can sometimes not show up for weeks. Here is an excellent article by Dr. Ron Shimek on snail morphology that explains why it is necessary to do a proper acclimation: http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a...wb/default.asp

I must say, Chinitoe, that your attitude towards the husbandry of your livestock is unusual.

Ninong


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Irrational Exuberance!

[chinitoe]

thanks again ninong,
i went to the LFS yesterday to check out the stocks but didnt buy anything. i decided too not to purchase their snails coz it just might die on me. i can collect snails on my own but it just takes a little time. the reason bought snails was that it was so cheap (50 snails/dollar)

[Staghorn]

Your Sal. is too low. Get it up to at least NSW 1.025 and they will stop dying. I had the same problem some time ago and that is the advice Charles Delbeek gave me after I e-mailed him my paramaters. Mine was running about what yours is now.

[REAL BIG FISH]

Did the anemone eat them ?????

Jamey[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

[Ninong]

[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

[razorbackfan]

Originally posted by chinitoe:

i must admit that i dont acclimate my snails or other inverts properly. i just let the plastic float in the tank for 10 mins then drop them right in. could this be the problem?

Um, ya think?????????



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Jim - GO HOGS GO!
Visit my NEW Reef Page -
http://razorbackfan.topcities.com
Nobody likes a drunk monkey

[Staghorn]

Well, I hate to tell ya, I don't acclimate snails at all anymore and I haven't had any problems, at all. IME, I noticed some snails died when the salinity was low (or very high like when my FW doser failed while on vacation. I have not lost snails due to extreme temperature changes or ph changes. It occured to me that I was killing the snails while acclimating them to my tank's low salinity. Once I thought I understood that, I reasoned if the salinity is right for them now and temp or PH had no effect, why acclimate? I have added snails a number of times over the years this way and they have never died, except months later when they get attacked or die of old age. This is just my experience. Somebody else might have a different one.

[kimmeewoo]

Come on, guys...This is the first time I've seen a post answered with sarcasm. What happened to "no flames" and "the friendliest board on the net?" Chinitoe offered the information about not acclimating her snails because she was genuinely trying to find the answer. If people start to mock a person for admitting information that might be pertinent, then next time that person (or another person) won't volunteer information that could save a life but might get them flamed. Chinitoe agreed to try a different approach, even though some people posted that they also do not acclimate their snails.

Please, this is such a great board with even greater folks. Let's keep it as friendly as it has been. I love this place, and would hate to see it go the direction of some of those "other boards."

Kimber

[Ninong]

Hi Kimber ~

There is no possibility that Chinitoe will be upset with either Jamey's question, "Did the anemone eat them?" or my post of the big grin smilie.[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

In fact, I will e-mail this thread to Chinitoe right now so that when she wakes up she can reply to reassure you that it is all in good sport and refers to something else extremely funny that happened some time back.

She may be confused by your statement: "Chinitoe offered the information about not acclimating her snails because she was genuinely trying to find the answer."

Also, I can assure you that she already knew that most people recommend a long acclimation for snails. (Chinitoe: "i must admit that i dont acclimate my snails or other inverts properly. i just let the plastic float in the tank for 10 mins then drop them right in.") It's just that Chinitoe likes to do things her own way, like the two Blue Ringed Octopus episodes.

Anyway, Chinitoe knows a lot about this hobby because we have exchanged e-mails in the past; however, she may get a kick out of this thread since she is a 23-yr-old named Jonathan.[img]/ubb/wink2.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

P.S. - In case you're wondering, the anemone ate the second blue ringed octopus. [img]/ubb/eek3.gif[/img] The first one escaped... from the anemone... and the tank![img]/ubb/wink2.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Staghorn]

Ninong, you are too much! Is there anything you are not up on?

[REAL BIG FISH]

It was all in fun Kimber!

Ninong.....she.....[img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

[chinitoe]

uhmmm, first of all, im a HE-MAN and not a SHE-RA. ok?

kimmy, i really dont mind too much about flames... not that im feel flamed. you know these guys are just looking for a little fun from the hours they spend replying to our post.
The anemone thing happened a few months ago, you can look it up if you want to. No harm done guys.

this still is the best board ive been too and hope it will always be.
thanks ya all.