I am very interested in the Scott’s Fairy Wrasse and the Red Sea Eight Line Flasher Wrasse. I have a relatively young 180-gallon fowlr tank with a deep sand bed. I am toying with the idea of a small harem of either or both of these. This raises a few questions:

1. What is a “supermale,” and, more important, how can I identify one. As I understand it, a supermale is a male that cannot change sex and is more brilliantly colored. A number of web vendors (most notably themarinecenter.com) advertise supermales, but how would you know if you really got one?

2. Is there any experience with keeping a small harem - say one supermale, one male and three females? If so, what would their requirements be?

Ultimately I would be interested in spawning and raising them, but I can find no information on other attempts.

Finally, any source for awesome specimens?

Lots of questions - any answers?

You may find some answers here www.fishbase.org or here www.wetwebmedia.com

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In this hobby patience is not a virtue,,,,,its mandatory.
Jim's Marine Links

Originally posted by vasubandu:

Hi vasubandu, I just noticed this post.

I am very interested in the Scott’s Fairy Wrasse and the Red Sea Eight Line Flasher Wrasse.

Yes, so am I, that's why I decided to reply to your post at this late date. I think they are both extremely beautiful and fascinating... not to mention reef-safe, which is a rarity among wrasses.

I have a relatively young 180-gallon fowlr tank with a deep sand bed.

That would be an excellent tank for either species.

I am toying with the idea of a small harem of either or both of these.

This is where it gets tricky.

1. What is a “supermale,” and, more important, how can I identify one. As I understand it, a supermale is a male that cannot change sex and is more brilliantly colored.

My understanding is that a supermale is a dominant mature male that controls a group of females (a harem) and possibly defends a certain territory. A subordinate male would be a non-territorial male. Males of both of these species are larger than the females and have different colorations. The intensity of the male's coloration is related to his display of dominance over other conspecifics. In other words, a male that is kept with a female is likely to retain more brilliant coloration than a male that is kept alone, even if both were similarly colored at one time (before being put into the aquarium).

A number of web vendors (most notably themarinecenter.com) advertise supermales, but how would you know if you really got one?

Yes, I have noticed that about The Marine Center. As a matter of fact, I have heard the term supermale applied to Pseudanthias spp. but I'm not sure I have heard it applied to the wrasses before. Both Pseudanthias and the Flasher and Fairy wrasses are haremic, but the size of the shoals is much, much larger with Pseudanthias and I'm not quite sure the harem structure is exactly the same either. But it's quite possible that the term supermale can be applied to these wrasses, too.

2. Is there any experience with keeping a small harem - say one supermale, one male and three females?

OK, this is where the tricky part comes in. I believe it will be difficult to keep more than one male in a 180-gal tank. Maybe not impossible, but difficult. Even though these wrasses are not aggressive to other fish, they are aggressive to other members of the same family. In fact, Scott Michael recommends that if you want to keep a pair of Scott's Fairy Wrasses, you should put the male and the female into the tank at the same time. If it is necessary to add them separately, he recommends that the female should be the one added first and then the male added later on, and not vice versa. So from that, I would imagine that if you were going to try to keep several Scott's Fairy Wrasses in a 180-gal tank (say a total of 4 or 5), that they should be added at the same time and that there should only be one male and the rest females. If it worked out, you would still end up with a hierarchy among the females. If anything happened to the male, the dominant female would change to male within a few weeks.

Also, I don't think it would work to try to keep both species in the same 180-gal tank because I believe the two males would create problems for each other.

These species are both protogynous hermaphrodites and haremic. This means that they are female first before changing to male. They are found in groups that are heavily females and juveniles, with possibly a very few non-territorial subordinate males that literally hang at the bottom of the aggregation. A dominant supermale would be a male that controls a group of females and possibly defends a specific territory against intrusion by other males.

With most species of fish that are protogynous hermaphrodites, once they become male there is no changing back. There are exceptions to this with some species in situations where there is an insufficient number of females present in a given territory, some of the males may change back to female. I'm not sure if this applies to these wrasses or not, but if it does, you may be right that the supermales do not change. If you come across anything definite one way or the other, I would like to know.

I didn't bother to look this up on the Breeders' Registry, but I don't believe these wrasses have ever been captive bred before. Have you heard of anybody succeeding with breeding either of these species?

Regards,

Ninong






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Irrational Exuberance!

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I have been continuing to research and have concluded that one "supermale" and four females would be best, since one of the females could become male if the situation warranted it. I still have had no luck finding a supplier for a harem, though. Will let you know what I find.

OK, I have had e-mail correspondence with someone on reefs.org who keeps pairs of both Scott's Fairy Wrasses and one or two of the Flasher Wrasse species. I could find the e-mail in my Outlook Express if I really looked hard enough because it was a few months back. But he did tell me the source of his wrasses.

There are evidentally very few females that are collected for the hobby because their coloration is not as intense and the demand is just not there. But it is possible to put in a special request by sex and even by area that you are interested in. The Scott's Fairy Wrasses from some areas are more intensely colored than those from other areas. Don't ask me if the Australian ones are more colorful or not because I forgot.

Anyway, this guy put in a special request which was relayed to the collection people, and he eventually got exactly what he was looking for. I believe he even posted pics and they were gorgeous.

Ninong

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Irrational Exuberance!

Hey vasubandu ~

I just received an e-mail from www.northcoastmarines.com telling me what livestock just came in:

lg purple tang...red sea....75.00
sm sohal tang.....65.00 red sea
med sailfin tang....red sea....60.00
lg red sea sail fin tang.....70.00
pair (m&f) scotts velvet wrasse...gorgeous!!! 100.00/both
sm red sea blonde naso tang.....50.00
flame hawk.....38.00
m/l red sea sohal tang......100.00

Thought you might be interested in knowing that he has a pair (M&F) Scott's Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus scottorum). Unfortunately, my tank is not even set up yet or I would have been interested myself.

Regards,

Ninong


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Irrational Exuberance!

I got the Scotts Fairy wrasses from North Coast. $166 for the pair including shipping. They are awesome. Even the female is gorgeous. The male eats and spits out formula 1 and 2, but he seems to be eating some. I will post pics of these beauties. What wonderful fish.

Thanks for the update. What size are they?

Ninong

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Irrational Exuberance!

I would say the male is 5" and the female is 3". I am more surprised by the female - she is nicer than the male cyanopleuras I have seen. I could look at them all day. Will post pics this weekend.

Well, im glad to hear that you got them, I foe one cannot wait to see the pics!!!!!

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<center>NORMAL PEOPLE WORRY ME</center> rick@reefland.com
visit my micro reef and lowrider page! Saltjunkiesreef
It is always under continuous change

Wow! Five inches for the male sounds pretty good. I couldn't tell from the original pics from North Coast what the size difference was since they were separate pics. But 5" and 3" sounds like you got your money's worth.

Ninong

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Irrational Exuberance!

I am amazed too. He is the biggest fish in the tank- dwarfs my flame angel (no pun intended) and is bigger than my Kole Tang.

We want pics! We want pics! We want pics! [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Later,

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ninong, I am emailing you some draft pics. I need to get a tripod tomorow. Will post good pics this week.

You are such a tease!!!Hurry with the pics, please!

I am expecting my tripod tomorrow. I have taken over 100 photos, but they are too fast. This is the best I havse so far.



[This message has been edited by vasubandu (edited 04-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by vasubandu (edited 04-18-2001).]