[Mezmo]

Sorry for my Yoda. I recently aquired a 55g Saltwater setup (tank,canopy,full cabinet, wet/dry,pump,substrate and 4 huge pieces of dead coral for deco ALL for $100? Who's better than me I figured.
We had just recently had to put our dog down and the kids still miss a pet. With another puppy or kitten is out of the question currently the wife and I both thought that the fishtank would be wonderful bargain at...err wonderful experience with the children as well as a good date for the wife and I to spend time together.

The tank was actively running for 5 yrs the last 6-8 mos it was running without fish in it. We emptied the tank leaving some water, the substrate and coral in the tank. After the move I mixxed and added saltwater and let it run for a week till my wife and kids were getting too ansy so I purchased 4 Blue Damsels and 4 Four Stripe Damsels and introduced them to the tank.

I figured the fact that I had the same wet/dry filter which I didnt clean and the same substrate that the tank would not have to undergo the same nitrate cycle and that their hardiness would be beneficial in moving things along.They were in there about 8 days.

My wife then as a surprise to me for my birthday purchased 1 Radiata Lionfish (about 3 inches) and 1 porcupine puffer (5 inch and what a personality) and acclimated them to the tank. I was surprised and happy but I have become very fearful now of some amonia spike or something to occur and kill them. I have been measuring the water every few days but ammonia and nitrates are barely traceable. PH and SG are all on spec. My wife thinks this is a good sign but I'm worried that it hasnt even begun.

The wet/dry filter is made more for a 150g tank and the pump is also made for a larger tank as there is good water flow.

I can't really afford to setup another tank and I had looked into the "Right!Now!" 24hr cylce bacteria but the tri carbon stuff suckking too much air out of the water was a scary newbie thought.

Has anyone used RightNow with livefish? I know the company says it can when you follow there step by step. But I am still nervous. Would a Denitrator unit pumping in the tank help?

[Ninong]

Hi Mezmo, welcome to Reefland!

The answer to your question is complicated. I think I will just list a few points for consideration:

• Eight of anything at one time was a bit much to put into a new tank.

• Damsels are very hardy fish, so if all eight of them survived to this point (2 weeks after starting up the tank) you are probably OK in that department.

• If your tests show no ammonia and very little or no nitrites, you are probably past the initial stage of an initial cycle. Because of the rather heavy fish load in your tank, especially after the addition of the 3" lionfish and 5" puffer, you will probably have increasing levels of nitrates. This should not cause any problems in a fish-only tank unless the numbers get very high. Fish can tolerate rather high levels of nitrates and should have no trouble at all with nitrates below 150 ppm. They can tolerate much higher levels but most people try to keep their nitrates below 50 ppm in a fish-only aquarium. In a reef tank you would want to get your nitrates down below 10 ppm and preferably below 5 ppm.

• I would not purchase any products to add to your tankwater at this point to affect the "cycle" of the tank. Leave it alone.

• Damsels are very aggressive fish. Many people who have them wish they didn't. Something to consider.

• Both the lionfish and the puffer will eat smaller fish. You should be prepared for the possibility that they will consume any fish small enough to fit into their mouths.

• Both the lionfish and the puffer will require a tank larger than 55-gallons as they mature.

• The porcupine puffer is an opportunistic omnivore that will eat anything and everything. The lionfish is more of a carnivore.

• I'm sure you already know this, but the lionfish is venomous and can inflict very painful stings. Be very careful that your hand doesn't accidentally bump into its fins.

• Be aware of the fact that the puffer can bite. It will bite just about anything and everything.

Here is a good website where you can get lots of information on the various fish and how to care for them: www.wetwebmedia.com

Good luck!

[Mezmo]

No I think we are screwed. The test kit we recieved with the tank had old expired ingrediants. I purchased some fresh chemicals to test the water and it looks grim, very grim.

PH is at about 8.2
Nitrates are near 0
Nitrites = 0.6
Amonia = 0.97 (maybe maxxed out)

I guess this tank has not cycled yet. Is there anything I can do to save my Radiata and Puffer or just ride it out? Will I only be prolonging the enevitable by trying to counter the toxins with chemicals and stuff?

[Ninong]

You would want to reduce your nitrite and ammonia levels as quickly as possible but even if they are as high as your most recent testing seems to indicate you will probably not lose any of your present fish. The same would not be true for corals.

That's a curious number for your ammonia, 0.97 ppm. What brand of ammonia test kit is that? I use Salifert's ammonia test kit and it only measures <0.5, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 and >2.0 ppm.

Using a bag of GAC (granular activated carbon) would help, as would a polyfilter. You might want to consider one of the ammonia binders on the market such as Amquel by Kordon.

If you are getting readings on ammonia and nitrite but no readings yet on nitrate, then your "cycle" is still in the initial stage. You will probably get by without any losses, certainly no losses among the damsels.

Good luck,

[Mezmo]

I am using the Kordon test kit and the Ammonia chart has 2 types of numbers (0.0,0.24,0.49,0.73,0.97) the second set is (0.0,0.2N,0.4N,0.6N,0.8N). Funny thing is that when I test the Nitrate the color chart is more or less gauged in Pinkish shades yet the water changes more to a light yellow color.

By adding things to counter the ammonia wont I just be delaying the cycle?

[dougc]

You have to balance cycling the tank agains letting the levels get dangerously high. You could keep the levels down by doing water changes to dilute the ammonia. The tank will cycle anyway, since you will not entirely eliminate the ammonia or nitrites by water changes alone.

[Mezmo]

Ammonia levels appear to be dropping somewhat and the Nitrite still looks like it might be dropping also but I am still not getting any Nitrate readings. I will do a water change later and dilute some of the ammonia hopefully.

Thanks for all your help. Ahh to be a newbie once again at something. My wife has already begun her list of wanted fish but promises not to get them until the tank finishes cycling.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Mezmo

My wife has already begun her list of wanted fish but promises not to get them until the tank finishes cycling.

I hope it's not a very long list.

You should research the dietary needs of each of the fish you are considering, their potential compatibility with each other and their adult size. Keep in mind that this is just a 55-gal tank and it already has 8 damsels, 1 lionfish and 1 porcupine puffer.

Here is a good source of information: http://www.fishbase.org/search.cfm

Here is an example of the information for your porcupine puffer: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...me=holocanthus

Notice what the natural diet is for the porcupine puffer: Crustaceans and molluscs and lots of them. They need crunchy stuff to keep their teeth from overgrowing. You could feed them whole raw shrimp from the supermarket, even crawfish once they get larger. If they don't get enough crunchy stuff in their diet they will munch on anything available in the tank, including power cords.

Always check to see what the maximum adult size is for any fish you are considering. Notice that the maximum adult size for the porcupine puffer is 50 cm (19.7").

Here is the link for your lionfish: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...esname=radiata

Notice that its natural diet is exclusively small crabs and shrimps and its maximum adult size is 24cm (9.4").

[Mezmo]

Thanks again. I tried to target the fish at about 10 inches give or take. Unfortunately my wife simply fell in love with the baby puffer. She would visit him during her lunch hour and the puffer began to actively follow her around when she came in. Part of the reason she bought him prematurely was because of another couple who were eyeing him. I've seen other similar puffers but this one I must admit is really a character. Currently, both him and thankfully the baby radiata are already taking to the frozen shrimp/crawfish. Man that Puffer would eat to death if I let him 8-)


The good thing about the puffer growing large is that it is my ticket to a bigger tank. Somehow if I wanted a large fishtank my wife would have a fit. However, if suddenly our fatboy puffer needed a new tank my wife would cancel the mortgage payments to insure we have the funds to give spot a new home.