Starting first FOWLR tank

[GoinSalt]

Have been a freshwater keeper for last five years running, got the OK from wife to take saltwater plunge.

Went to the lfs and got a quote for basically a whole new system (90 gal).

The guy included a prism protein skimmer. It look pretty rinky-dink. Anyone have any experience/feedback with skimmer?

[Reefland]

Hi GoinSalt, Welcome to Reefland!

The Prism Skimmer is not going to be enough for a 90 gallon tank; your probably going to have to go with something besides a hang-on skimmer to keep up with that Volume.

Before the LFS rips you off on everything and gets you a bunch of useless equipment, please tell us what they recommended and if you feel comfortable, the cost as we can surely help out with some better choices; especially since they recommended a Prism for a 90 gallon tank.

Scott Z.

[GoinSalt]

Hi Scott,

BTW, I love this site!

He quoted me a price of about a grand for:
- 90 gal tank (tall)/stand/lght
- 40 lbs of live rock (base/premium)
- live sand + crushed coral (although I read here that its best to go with one or the other)
- salt (i think 2 20lb bags)
- two powerheads (Rio, not sure of the output).
- cannister filter (they carry fluval) The price he quoted was like $100, but when I looked at fluvals at the other store, it was about $100 more for one to accomodate up to 100 gal.
- thermometer (with outside tank adjustment)

Basically, the deal (I think) is on the tank/stand plus light for $550. I went to another lfs and tanks, stands and lights were all sold separately for about $200 more. Everything else was pretty comprable at other stores i visited. It's one of those small, privately owned places.


Basically the guy seemed to know what he was talking about, generally, but I've done a lot of research on this and it didn't seem like he had everything nailed.

BTW, is prism any good?

Any input is greatly appreciated,

Nate

Hi GoinSalt, Welcome to Reefland!

The Prism Skimmer is not going to be enough for a 90 gallon tank; your probably going to have to go with something besides a hang-on skimmer to keep up with that Volume.

Before the LFS rips you off on everything and gets you a bunch of useless equipment, please tell us what they recommended and if you feel comfortable, the cost as we can surely help out with some better choices; especially since they recommended a Prism for a 90 gallon tank.

Scott Z.

[patsfan1130]

Hi Scott,

BTW, I love this site!

He quoted me a price of about a grand for:
- 90 gal tank (tall)/stand/lght
- 40 lbs of live rock (base/premium)
- live sand + crushed coral (although I read here that its best to go with one or the other)
- salt (i think 2 20lb bags)
- two powerheads (Rio, not sure of the output).
- cannister filter (they carry fluval) The price he quoted was like $100, but when I looked at fluvals at the other store, it was about $100 more for one to accomodate up to 100 gal.
- thermometer (with outside tank adjustment)

Basically, the deal (I think) is on the tank/stand plus light for $550. I went to another lfs and tanks, stands and lights were all sold separately for about $200 more. Everything else was pretty comprable at other stores i visited. It's one of those small, privately owned places.


Basically the guy seemed to know what he was talking about, generally, but I've done a lot of research on this and it didn't seem like he had everything nailed.

BTW, is prism any good?

Any input is greatly appreciated,

Nate

Only things I would buy from him would be tank/stand and MAYBE LR & salt (due to shipping costs from online purchases) I just purchased a 90 for my brother, I paid $600 for the tank & stand (cherry). I believe a 90 would have cost me $500. Prices on LR vary but upwards of $9/lb is not uncommon. so 40lbs would run approx $350. Keep in mind though that a lot of this "so called" LR sold in LFS is crap. You can get MUCH better quality LR from online sources and closer to $5/lb. Dump the canister altogether,prism skimmers suck IMO. You could go with an Aquac Remora pro hang on (I recently bought one and it does a fantastic job on my 110g) I'm not a big fan of RIO pumps/PH. I'm using max-jet 1200's (great powerhead). Check around at your local Home depot for your sand "Yardright" @ around $4.00/bag

[Reefland]

Hi Scott,

BTW, I love this site!

Thanks and we are glad you enjoy it. Hope you can learn from it and save you some money while you build yourself an awesome saltwater tank.

He quoted me a price of about a grand for:
- 90 gal tank (tall)/stand/lght
- 40 lbs of live rock (base/premium)
- live sand + crushed coral (although I read here that its best to go with one or the other)
- salt (i think 2 20lb bags)
- two powerheads (Rio, not sure of the output).
- cannister filter (they carry fluval) The price he quoted was like $100, but when I looked at fluvals at the other store, it was about $100 more for one to accomodate up to 100 gal.
- thermometer (with outside tank adjustment)

Ok, let me attack these 1 at a time.

1. Did the tank have an internal overflow? You will want a tank that has an internal overflow so you can use a sump.

2. Probably going to want more liverock and you can undoubtedly gather it cheaper online and get some good quality rock.

3. Yup it's better to go with one of the other and actually, the sandbed is better as it is less likely to trap detritus and cause problems. Crushed Coral can be used but should be vacuumed frequently.

4. There has been a lot of discussions on salt lately. I use Instant Ocean, others are using Bio Assay; do a search and do some reading there.

5. Do not go with RIO's, they have been very problematic in the past causing complete tank crashes. If you have to use powerheads I recommend Max-Jet 1200's but would encourage you to look at other flow options to prevent from having the equipment in the tank. Do a search for closed loop.

6. Ditch the canister filter and any other type of "mechanical filter". Spend the extra money on a good skimmer.

7. Thermometer is important. I use a little digital thermometer that has a probe that I stick in my sump. Just as important is the heater(s); make sure not to skimp here.

Now, what kind of lights did the tank come with? if you have the budget, a small set of VHO's or PC's would really make the tank look much better.

Basically, the deal (I think) is on the tank/stand plus light for $550. I went to another lfs and tanks, stands and lights were all sold separately for about $200 more. Everything else was pretty comprable at other stores i visited. It's one of those small, privately owned places.

I think you could get a drilled 90gallon with a stand for that price with some shopping around. If you plan to use some better lighting, don't even mess with the standard lighting.

Basically the guy seemed to know what he was talking about, generally, but I've done a lot of research on this and it didn't seem like he had everything nailed.

LFS employees are for the most part frowned upon and will try to talk you into a lot of equipment and livestock that is not good. Beware!

BTW, is prism any good?

See my post above. Might not be a bad skimmer for a 10 or 20 gallon tank but you'll definitely need more and that is going to depend on whether or not you use a sump on your system.

Scott Z.

[GoinSalt]

I don't know how to add my comments under yours, so I'll just do it this way.

-No overflow. Do I really have to hassle with a sump? It seems like having to set up a whole 'nother aquarium. But should it be something to consider w/ 90 gal tank? Not exactly sure how to set one up.

-The lr around here is about $5/lb.

- What other flow options are there? What is a closed loop?

- Is lr/ls and a skimmer enough of a filtration system? It seems it would be a bit cheaper if I didn't have to both a skimmer and another filter.

- When I said thermometer, I meant heater. It was a "titanium tube"? Something like that?

- The current light is just a regular flourescent. I'm not planning a reef tank because I wanted to avoid the high cost of lighting. But if I save money other place, would definitely like to upgrade lighting.

- A previous post mentioned something about using play sand? Can i do this? What about all the beneficial creatures found in the live sand? To be honest, I'd rather spend $4 for 20 pounds of play sand than $30 for LS.

I know they say bigger is better, but this being my first salty, should I maybe start with something smaller? 55 or 75 gals?

Nate

Thanks and we are glad you enjoy it. Hope you can learn from it and save you some money while you build yourself an awesome saltwater tank.


Ok, let me attack these 1 at a time.

1. Did the tank have an internal overflow? You will want a tank that has an internal overflow so you can use a sump.

2. Probably going to want more liverock and you can undoubtedly gather it cheaper online and get some good quality rock.

3. Yup it's better to go with one of the other and actually, the sandbed is better as it is less likely to trap detritus and cause problems. Crushed Coral can be used but should be vacuumed frequently.

4. There has been a lot of discussions on salt lately. I use Instant Ocean, others are using Bio Assay; do a search and do some reading there.

5. Do not go with RIO's, they have been very problematic in the past causing complete tank crashes. If you have to use powerheads I recommend Max-Jet 1200's but would encourage you to look at other flow options to prevent from having the equipment in the tank. Do a search for closed loop.

6. Ditch the canister filter and any other type of "mechanical filter". Spend the extra money on a good skimmer.

7. Thermometer is important. I use a little digital thermometer that has a probe that I stick in my sump. Just as important is the heater(s); make sure not to skimp here.

Now, what kind of lights did the tank come with? if you have the budget, a small set of VHO's or PC's would really make the tank look much better.

I think you could get a drilled 90gallon with a stand for that price with some shopping around. If you plan to use some better lighting, don't even mess with the standard lighting.

LFS employees are for the most part frowned upon and will try to talk you into a lot of equipment and livestock that is not good. Beware!

See my post above. Might not be a bad skimmer for a 10 or 20 gallon tank but you'll definitely need more and that is going to depend on whether or not you use a sump on your system.

Scott Z.

[GoinSalt]

What is "yardright"?

Nate

Only things I would buy from him would be tank/stand and MAYBE LR & salt (due to shipping costs from online purchases) I just purchased a 90 for my brother, I paid $600 for the tank & stand (cherry). I believe a 90 would have cost me $500. Prices on LR vary but upwards of $9/lb is not uncommon. so 40lbs would run approx $350. Keep in mind though that a lot of this "so called" LR sold in LFS is crap. You can get MUCH better quality LR from online sources and closer to $5/lb. Dump the canister altogether,prism skimmers suck IMO. You could go with an Aquac Remora pro hang on (I recently bought one and it does a fantastic job on my 110g) I'm not a big fan of RIO pumps/PH. I'm using max-jet 1200's (great powerhead). Check around at your local Home depot for your sand "Yardright" @ around $4.00/bag

[Reefer769]

hey im in the process of putting a sump on my 30gal i thought i would just give you a couple of links i used to build my sump, hope they help.

-http://www.sjpdesigns.com/NewReef/sumphowto.htm

-http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

[patsfan1130]

What is "yardright"?

Nate

Yardright/Southdown is the brand name of the sand often found in Home depot. It is the same stuff the LFS sells for $30.

LR & a good skimmer are really all you need for filtration. water movement is very important. again, I recommend the max-jet 1200's

You do not need to have a sump in your system but they can be very beneficial. Many people run sumpless systems and have great success. All equipment would then need to go into the tank itself.

If you are going F/O then light is purely whatever is pleasing to you

[GoinSalt]

But isn't the point of the live sand to get all the beneficial critters? Or will those things come off the lr? Would i then have to seed the sand?

Man, I thought I did my research! Looks like I either scratched the surface or opened a can of worms!

Yardright/Southdown is the brand name of the sand often found in Home depot. It is the same stuff the LFS sells for $30.

You do not need to have a sump in your system but they can be very beneficial. Many people run sumpless systems and have great success. All equipment would then need to go into the tank itself.

If you are going F/O then light is purely whatever is pleasing to you

[patsfan1130]

But isn't the point of the live sand to get all the beneficial critters? Or will those things come off the lr? Would i then have to seed the sand?

Man, I thought I did my research! Looks like I either scratched the surface or opened a can of worms!

You'll get the "beneficial critters" your looking for.

Yes, you can seed the sand with sand from an established tank. Be sure it is from a healthy system. The LR will also help seed the sand as well.

[RayPollett]

Rember there are a lot of different ways to do things and have sucess. I do thing different than those who have posted. I like KISS and cheap.

The tank, and stand are not a bad deal. You said you want a FOWLR. So here is how I would set it up if a glass tank. Arcylic may be a little different because of filter slots. You need:

Play sand from Lowe's or Home Depot at about $3.00 a bag. 3 bags

Some Live rock from www.tampabaysaltwater.com There are very good and will get you good stuff. Explain what you want, I've never known them to sell something you did not need. ( you may have a m,antis shrimp or two come in on the rock - they will have to be caught and removed).

A Dual Aqualight strip from www.marineandreef.com that fis your tank.

2 Emperor 400 filters $39.99 each + shipping at www.DrsFosterSmith.com last time I checked.

The detrivore kit and then the fish you want after the cycle is done.

Ray