[WuTang]

Last November, I started up my "Fish Only" TRUVU 60 Gallon without doing much planning or research. Since then, I've learned quite a bit about the SW hobby and the amount of money that can be dumped into it. For me, the monetary part wasn't a shocker since everything I get into contributes immensely to our economy. I just wish I knew more at the beginning which would have saved me some cash these past 12 months. Although, I still consider myself a rookie marine enthusiast.

Anyway, when I first started up my tank, I bought a Fluval 404 canister filter which I currently run to this day. Since I did not know much about filtration, I figured the only things required for cycling my "FISH ONLY" tank was my Fluval 404 offering mechanical/chemical/biological anaerobic filtration, a heater, 5 damsels, 2 triggers, a large dead piece of white coral, some fake aquarium plants and fake coral.

During the first 2 to 3 months, all of my damsels died along with my small Huhumu trigger. Although, my Niger Trigger seemed to be unphased and proved to be my diehard fish.

After doing a water test with no ammonia and safe nitrite and nitrate levels around the 3rd month, I bought 4 more damsels, a Yellow Tang, and a Blue Imperial Tang. 2 weeks later, both Tangs died but my damsels survived along with my original Niger Trigger.

After the 4th month, my water quality seemed to improve and I bought 3 more damsels with 8 fish total in my aquarium. My tank seemed to have reached a nice healthy plateau where all my fish were happy and I had no fish loss for 7 months! BTW, I bought a Panther grouper in August who seemed to thrive until the 11th month (my tank's nuclear holocaust).

Since January of this year, I've been doing monthly water changes (replacing about 20 gallons each time) and cleaning my Fluval's biological ceramics with disposed aquarium water and just replacing the carbon.

Around the end of October, the LFS encouraged me to add some Live Rock along with a $45 Skimmer made by Jebo. Since he had fish (two angel fish) swimming in the tank where the live rock was coming from, I figured it was cycled. After doing my monthly water change, installing the skimmer, and adding the new live rock, it turned out to be THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I EVER MADE considering the immediate outcome! THE LIVE ROCK SHOT MY AMMONIA READINGS OFF THE CHART! About 2 days later, all my fish went delirious. They started swimming in circles, constantly scraping themselves on the sand or rock, swam sporadically in a darting fashion, went into hiding or just layed on the sand, and most of all ate nothing. All typical behavior of Ammonia toxicity poisoning. I immediately took out the live rock and started to do partial water changes everyday for 4 days. But by then, it was too late since 6 of my fish had perished within that same week with 3 damsels surviving.

After about 2 weeks of quarantining the live rock, I added the rock back to the tank along with 30 more pounds ( about 53 pounds total in my tank) and leaving it in there for couple of days. I did one more partial water change and added the ammonia remover media in my Fluval. Also, I took off my Jebo skimmer since I recently bought an upgraded Skimmer (A CPR Back Pack II hang-on Skimmer with Bio-Bale and Preskimmer/Bubble Trap Box). I haven't installed this new skimmer yet which leads me to my question.

Another LFS highly recommends a sump/refugium system to replace my Fluval filter and my hang-on skimmer. A sump definitely has it's benefits especially with nitrates, accomodates an insump skimmer, and just makes an awesome filter if I don't start up a reef. Although, they're estimating around $500 - $800 of equipment ($175 Customized Sump/Refugium (biggest I can fit in my cabinet), $245 Euroreef ES5-2 Skimmer, $55 Rio 2500 Return Pump, $93 CPR Overflow Box, $69 Lamp, various plumbing accessories, plants, live sand, install labor? and possible modifications to the rear of my cabinet?

I would like any and all opinions if this is worth the money in doing so or should I just install my CPR Back-Pak II which offers biological aerobic filtration with its bio-bale and continue to run my Fluval? I have no plans of starting a reef at this time and prefer to just raise fish like triggers, tangs, and groupers which are bad for reefs for the most part (excluding the tangs). Also, it's a little bit of a hassle to clean my Fluval and buying the media every month. What's the maintenance like if I decide to go with a sump and are they giving me a good deal? I have a little bit of an algae problem as well (hassle cleaning every month). I have a few snails but I probably need more since they're not doing that good of a job. I appreciate your pros and cons as well as any recommendations.

If you have read this entire post, thanks for reading and I apologize if it's too long. Again, I appreciate any and all responses since I'm new here (joined a couple of days ago)....

[Poseidon]

Phew that was a long one...

YES Sumps are a great way to go, even for FOWLR tanks. I think the prices you were given are a little high though. FIRST and most obvious to me, is the cost of the lamp. I paid $11.00 for a "shop light" put in 2 plant grow bulbs and called it good. I have plenty of calurpa and other macro algaes growing to export nutrients. Next instead of buying a custom sump, can you just use a smaller tank and silicone in your own baffles, I use a 55 gallon tank for my sump. Third, I would so a search on RIO pumps. Unfortunately a good number of hobbiests have had some issues with them. Look at Mag brand or Gen-X instead. The rest of the equipment listed may be available from an online vendor at substantial savings, check the "sponsors" page for starters. One other thing to consider, the Euro Reef is an excellent skimmer, however you may also want to consider www.myreefcreations.com , Andy makes an top of the line skimmer as well. Here is his package price list, an MR-1 plus the pump is the same cost as what you were quoted by the LFS...

If you decide to go WITHOUT the sump, then the CPR bak-pak WITHOUT the Bio Bail may be a solution, but there is a substantial difference in Skimming capacity between the ER and the CPR! Reguardless of which way you go I would can the Fluval all together, canister filters seem to make more Nitrate then anything. You could still use it for a Carbon filter, but then you are still changing the media once a month.... I run carbon in my overflow box, easy in easy out. I use the HAgen Aqua Clear 300 prebagged stuff. Drop it in a month later replace!

[WuTang]

Thanks for your comments and recommendations. Although, if I decide to just go with my CPR, why do you suggest running it without the bio-bale? I thought bio-bale, bio balls, and bio-wheels promote and house aerobic bacteria growth which takes care of nitrites. I've seen a number of aquarium stores with bio-balls in their sumps. Is their a misconception or possible downside to this media that I'm not aware of?

Also, I'm not sure if I'm crafty enough to modify a fish tank and turn it into a sump. I'm more into saving time and would prefer to just buy a kit. What's your thoughts on a CPR Aquafuge Pro versus buying a seperate sump/refugium and skimmer? The aquafuge is 31" long where the custom sump/refugium would be 36" long. Will there be huge advange of having the longer sump and is it worth the money?

http://www.cpraquatic.com/products/citr.html

What are the advantages of a Euro-reef skimmer versus the skimmer provided in the Aquafuge? I have a 60 Gallon TRUVU tank and my budget is around $500 for a sump/refugium/skimmer/pump/plumbing/plants-algae/sand and light. I need to buy an overflow box as well and I'm considering a CPR hang-on. Again, I only want to do a FOWLR tank with the option to convert over to coral in the future. I may consider adding a UV light to the sump as a possible future upgrade.

I appreciate any responses...

[Samper]

They can't process the nitrates is the problem.

[WuTang]

If you're referring to the bio-bale, I understand aerobic bacteria does not get rid of nitrates and so that's the bio-bale's problem? If anything, that's the refugium's job. Although, I'm still not sure why the bio-bale should be excluded.