Saltwater aquarium problems

[FesteringGob]

I am new to this, but I have been working on a saltwater aquarium for about 6 months. I have a 20 gallon tank and have been adding things the past few weeks. I got a better filter system (AMIRACLE SL-5) and new coralife bulb. In the tank are hermit crabs, slug, 2 snails, 1 Percola Clown, 1 Purple Pseudochromis and 1 anemone. For the past few weeks the tank is turning green and it don't matter what I do. I have done 2 water changes in the past couple of weeks using the store bought saltwater. When the light is off, the tank is just green. There is not any visible algea on the sides of the glass, the water is just green. I have been to a couple of saltwater places and they can't seem to help. The levels are normal and the chemical tests come back good, but the water just looks horrible. Any ideas?

[gkes]

I am new to this hobby as well. After my 55 gal tank cycled, I added fish and experienced the same exact thing. I went to my LFS and they sold me a product called CHEMI-CLEAN made by Boyd Enterprises. It is in powder form and is used to remove red cyano bacteria from live coral. Well, I have live coral (soft) and fish, but was tired of the green water. I added the amount as directed and within 24 hrs the water was crystal clear. Did not hurt the fish or soft corals. By package directions, I did conduct a 20% water change the next day and everything lived. My LFS stated the problem I was having was from high phosphate levels in my water. I am using RO water now with no problems so far, but tomorrow in another day. This just letting you what I did to cure my problem, not suggesting you should try this. Good luck!!

I am new to this, but I have been working on a saltwater aquarium for about 6 months. I have a 20 gallon tank and have been adding things the past few weeks. I got a better filter system (AMIRACLE SL-5) and new coralife bulb. In the tank are hermit crabs, slug, 2 snails, 1 Percola Clown, 1 Purple Pseudochromis and 1 anemone. For the past few weeks the tank is turning green and it don't matter what I do. I have done 2 water changes in the past couple of weeks using the store bought saltwater. When the light is off, the tank is just green. There is not any visible algea on the sides of the glass, the water is just green. I have been to a couple of saltwater places and they can't seem to help. The levels are normal and the chemical tests come back good, but the water just looks horrible. Any ideas?

[Samper]

Welcome to Reefland you guys!!
First when you say all your levels are good we may say differently so please post your water parameters. This may help us remedy your situation.


Chemi clean huh.............does the ocean use chemi clean? Surely not. There is almost always a way to remedy the problems we encounter in our hobby without resorting to magic cures and potions as Ninong calls them. I'm glad it worked for you but what's in it to fix that problem? I wonder what other areas of your system it also affected say maybe your pod population.
I'm just shooting up in the air but it's something to think about.

I think both you guys came to the right place. Someone here will be able to help you with your future problems.

[Samper]

http://www.reefland.com/forum/showth...ht=green+water

[Poseidon]

Link didn't work Samper, I'll take a stab at it though.

First off as Samper said, WELCOME TO REEFLAND!!!

Next, You mention the tank has been up for 6 months, and the water is green. My first question is reguarding lighting, what is it and how long is it on? In order to keep that Anemone alive you are going to need SUBSTANTIAL lighting. Think Metal Halides. I would guess that you have a Standard "strip light" that came with your tank, and maybe the light is on 24 hours? That would certainly cause your algae problem, and stress out your inhabitants. Also the anemone would be doomed to a slow starvation.

Second, what do you feed and how often? High phosphates could be coming from overfeeding, or could be left over from when you filled the tank.

Third, What is the "store bought water" is it the stuff that says it comes from the ocean? Or is mixed up by your LFS? I wouldn't use EITHER of them, to many variables involved. Get a good salt mix and STICK with it. I use Instant Ocean, a few others use Crystal Sea Bioassay, some use TropicMarin and all the tanks are successful.

Finally have you tried to wipe the glass, then look thru? Diatom Algae is microscopic so it may not appear to be on the glass when in fact it is.

Hope this gets you started anyway, also like Samper said, please post your specific test results for NH3, NO2, NO3, and PO4. Ah heck also post pH, Ca and Alk, those last 2 are CRITICAL if you plan on keeping any corals... in the future

[FesteringGob]

I will redo the tests when I get home tonight, but I don't have a basic light. When I got the tank, it was a 10 gallon. I converted it to a 20. I have a Coralife compact flourescent bulb that the store told me was more than adiquate for what I had. Here is a link to the one I have, Click here and I also have live sand. Here is my filter system also, click here I also have a biowheel filter running on the tank while the amiracle gets set. I have done 2 water changes and put turbo start in the tank when I set the filter up and done water changes. The anemone was recently added when I added the light, but the tank has no direct sunlight and the closest window has a blind that is shut. The light runs around 8 hours a day. Anything else you need to know other than the results of my water tests?

[FesteringGob]

Oh yeah. You asked about the food. The only food I feed the fish is zooplankton. The anemone is krill. I give just a bit of the zooplankton every day or two. My wife has fed the fish before and may have a over feeding problem. I was feeding every day.

[Samper]

I can tell you right now that my anemone was bleaching pretty quickly under a slightly stronger pc fixture than yours. You will need to upgrade your lighting if you plan to keep it long term. I just changed lighting for my anemone and am now running a 250w 20k de bulb.

How did you convert a 10 gallon to a 20 gallon if you don't mind me asking?
I believe that for a nano water changes are very critical. I don't believe less than 5g every two weeks is adequate for anything less than 40 gallons. The larger systems can sustain themselves longer. I change the water in my 20 gallon every Saturday 5 gallons each time therefore completely changing the water out each month.

Turbo start = unnecessary
your tank will cycle and most likely be better off without it from now on.

[FesteringGob]

I just bought this light. Every dealer in my area told me this was a great light for corals and anemones. I say I converted, but I took everything from a 10 and put it in a 20. Sorry for the confusion. The only reason I used the turbo start for the last water changes is because the store told me to beings I was putting that new filter system in the tank. The turbo start was supposed to be for the new bio balls in that filter. You have any links to the light you suggested? As you can tell I am very new to saltwater. I have been at it less than a year.

[Poseidon]

Okay, lets keep trying then. First off the light is a nice one, you will certainly be able to keep most softies and some LPS, but it is still not enough for the Anemone. It will slowly shrival and eventually die. I tried to keep Anemones under PC lights before, I had 220 watts over my 55, so just a tad more then you have and I was not successful.

Anyway back to the Algae problem, when you remove the water from the tank and put it into the bucket is it a Yellowish green color? If so use of a carbon filter will certainly help.

Also the Amiracle filter you linked to shows a Protein Skimmer built in, is it producing stinky BROWN crap yet? If not it may need some tweaking. A good skimmer would be able to pull out suspended diatom algae, helping the green water problem. The thing I am most concerned about is both of the filters you currently have are excellent for NH3 and NO2, but lack the capability to remove Nitrate, NO3. Your algae problem may be a result of this. Do you have any "macro" algaes in your tank? Things like grape Calurpa would be a good start. They will out compete the diatoms for the same nutrients, so the diatoms will starve. That is a big reason why you hear about so many sumps/refugiums today, people will actually cultivate macro algaes out of site to help reduce the diatom algae in the main display.

You didn't mention any live rock. How much do you have, if any? That rock is natures filter and does a WONDERFUL job. It even house bacteria deep inside that can remove Nitrates. Plus you get all the beneficial critters, like worms and pods.

Only other thing I can think of before we see the test results is you will definatley need MORE SNAILS! I would think 20-24 astrea and 15-20 Nassarious (safer then crabs, and do the same job) would be a good start, from there you may want to add some Cerith and Nerite, maybe 6-12 of each, but I would wait on those.

WE'll get it figured out for you, PATIENCE is MANDATORY in this hobby, magic potions only treat the symptoms, not the source, it is best to correct the problem the first time....

[Ninong]

Hi FesteringGob, welcome to Reefland!

I will redo the tests when I get home tonight, but I don't have a basic light. When I got the tank, it was a 10 gallon. I converted it to a 20. I have a Coralife compact flourescent bulb that the store told me was more than adiquate for what I had. Here is a link to the one I have, Click here and I also have live sand. Here is my filter system also, click here

That setup should work reasonably well for a 20-gal tank provided you stick with corals that do not require higher light intensities. I don't believe the lighting (96w 50/50 quad PC) will be sufficient for an anemone but since you already have one, try feeding it every other day. Either that or return it to the store. The feeding will help somewhat to offset the lack of proper lighting. Do you know what species of anemone you have? The reason I ask is because just about all of the host anemones require a tank larger than 20 gallons.

You don't really need that "turbo start" stuff. Bacteria multiply quite rapidly with or without any of those commercial products.

The green water is the result of microalgae in the water column and is a pretty good indication that you have excess nitrate and phosphate in your system. You can probably solve that problem by getting rid of the phosphate. Dripping limewater (Kalkwasser) at night to replace all evaporation loss will help by precipitating phosphate. You can also purchase one of the phosphate sponge products to soak up the phosphate but be sure to avoid the ones that are alumina (Al2O3), such as PhosGuard. The safe products are iron oxide based.

[rayjay]

FWIW, my sebae anemone did just fine for two years, in a 30g tank with 4 NO's over it. Actually, the lighting did two 30g tanks sitting end to end.
The anemone was white with purple tips and I was distressed when the thing turned beige/brown. (This was 11 yrs ago next month when I bought it-No books no computer............)
I moved it into a 90g tank and again the lighting was NO, just more of it, with 8 NO's over the ninety, but the anemone was further from the lights because the tank was much deeper and the anemone was on the bottom. (see website)
Dr. Ron has mentioned in various posts on his site, that the main thing for most anemones is to feed them, and lighting isn't as important.
Back then, however, I didn't know this, and also didn't know they needed a lot of light, but the anemone grew anyway.
THIS IS NOT AN ADVISORY TO KEEP AN ANEMONE UNDER THIS LIGHTING.
It is merely a reaction to reading that an anemone, my clams, and many of the corals I keep, can't be kept under low lighting.
Thanks for letting me sound off.

[Ninong]

Dr. Ron has mentioned in various posts on his site, that the main thing for most anemones is to feed them, and lighting isn't as important.

"The zooxanthellate anemones need light, but not exceptionally bright light. Most will do well in a moderately lit aquarium. Much more critical is providing an acceptable substrate." -- Shimek, 1997. http://web.archive.org/web/200208032...wb/default.asp

It is merely a reaction to reading that an anemone, my clams, and many of the corals I keep, can't be kept under low lighting.
Thanks for letting me sound off.

Some people seem to have success with methods other than those commonly recommended. Obviously you seem to be having success with your Heteractis crispa (Sebae Anemone) in a bare bottom tank in spite of the fact that Dr. Ron insists that it requires a deep sediment substrate since it is found in nature buried in sediments with only its oral disk exposed: http://web.archive.org/web/200208032...wb/default.asp

[rayjay]

Thanks for that information, Ninong. I'd not come across that before.
On his site he has mentioned that feeding is most important but my anemone was probably 5 or 6 yrs old before I found out you were supposed to feed anemones.
I've read that some anemones should be placed on the substrate and some in the rocks, but didn't know it was considered to be that important.
I don't think, however, that I'm going to change what obviously is working.

[Samper]

rayjay do you have a clown/anemone relationship in your tank? If you do I'm just a little confused how you never noticed that the anemone needs to be fed. My Premnas biaculeatus feeds the anemone every time I feed the system. Even more remarkable to me is that the anemone will be fed by the GSM before it feeds itself. If you don't have the relationship then I understand how you might not have known and am just curious. ;)

[zhenya]

rayjay do you have a clown/anemone relationship in your tank? If you do I'm just a little confused how you never noticed that the anemone needs to be fed. My Premnas biaculeatus feeds the anemone every time I feed the system. Even more remarkable to me is that the anemone will be fed by the GSM before it feeds itself. If you don't have the relationship then I understand how you might not have known and am just curious. ;)

Well, when I checked on rayjay's website the last update states that his anemone had died from temperature spike.Is that correct, rayjay?

I am not all that sure that the clownfish is actually feeding the anemone, it might be just that but I personally think that it's just an attempt at food storing preccess by the fish. In nature, I believe that clownfish do not venture far from it's protective host and feed mostly on what's around it. Pods, some algae and other zooplankton. At least this is what I had read about them. In thanks, however, we feed them all sorts of food and some might be just a bit unacceptable to goble up at once. I know from observing my Clarkii that she attempts to grab a piece of lance fish but lets go and than take it again and shoves it into the tentacles. Is it feeding the anemone? I really don't know.

[Samper]

I believe that the clown understands the needs of the anemone and understands that if it should perish so does it's protection. I honestly believe no matter what evidence I read to the contrary that the clown is feeding it's home so that it can continue to be called home.

[Ninong]

Gene,

I agree with you that we can't be sure that the clownfish is actually feeding its host anemone. It is certainly not a natural behavior and has never been observed in the wild, but that's because, as you pointed out, clownfish eat tiny zooplankton and microalgae in the wild so maybe that's why. Maybe they don't know what to do with some of the stuff we feed them so they "feed" it to their anemone. Maybe they think they're just "taking it home for later." Who knows?

This topic has been discussed with someone who did her doctoral thesis and all of her post-doc work observing clownfish and their host anemones in their natural habitats and she reports that the feeding behavior observed in captivity does not happen in the wild.

[Samper]

Maybe the clown is closer to the anemone than we think and can actually tell that our captive anemones aren't getting enough food compared to the wild???

Even if a fish and anemone are captive bred and raised I believe they maintain their natural behaviors for the most part. Isn't it possible that the relationships observed in the wild had factors unknown to the observer such as a plentiful food supply so that the anemone being watched didn't require feedings by it's host?

[rayjay]

Yes, my original sebae was lost along with a lot of other livestock a year ago last summer when the new A/C quit when I was on holidays. (at this point it was in my tanks almost ten years, since Jan 94)
The replacement sebae has gone through the same stages.
I have an Ocellaris, I think it is called, (looks like a perc) but it leaves the anemone to feed and doesn't return to the anemone until he can't find any more food. This clown has never been seen to bring food back to the anemone like I have seen in some videos.
I do see the food drifting into the anemone but it's not a great deal. I figured the anemone was feeding on plankton existing in the tank due to feeding regieme and resultant food processing within the tank itself.