[Ninong]

If you read through NoSump's comments you will learn that his 72-gal tank is "filled with swirling white clouds," it happens overnight when the tank is dark and it "remains cloudy for 5-6 hours."

He recently added a piece of live rock that was in a curing vat at the LFS for three weeks.

So... That seems to rule out any problems with calcium/carbonate additives. It seems to point in the direction of a biological source that is nocturnal and it may be something in the new piece of live rock??? He is thinking of removing that piece of live rock to a separate container so that he can see if his main tank is cloudy the next morning. If it is, then we can rule out the new piece of live rock as the culprit. Maybe the butler did it.

[Poseidon]

Hmmm.... Then I can't seem to think of anything else other then snail orgy's...

[duster]

I have seen the term "NSW levels" alot in this thread. What does that mean? I would also like to put my two cents in regarding chemicals and additives. My experience tells me they are a waste of LFS shelf space. Unfortunately for my LFS, the only products I purchase from them are bags of good quality salt (Insant Ocean) and food. Quality filtered water, quality salt, live rock, proper tank setup and equipment, proper feeding, and good maintenance are all I've needed to keep my little tank perfectly healthy, thriving, and easy to keep. If you need chemicals and additives (other than the kalks, calcium, etc. required by sessile invert keepers), you're doing something wrong.

[Reefland]

NSW = Natural Sea Water or Natural Salt Water

[NoSump]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

On the smoke, does ANYTHING else change in your tank overnight? Tempature, pumps on or off, lights? There HAS to be a cause somewhere, I have not seen what you describe in all my experience either. Kinda sounds like when I added Ca supplement AND and Alkalinity supplement at the same time... Before I used Kalk I used the Sea Chem products, and if you mix the 2 you get a precipitate that may look like what you describe...

That's exactly what I have been doing, I began adding C-Balance around the time of the change. However, my calcium test shows my levels to be around 400PPM.

Also, nothing else changes overnight, other than that my high intensity lighting is off, and my moon lights are on.

Chuck

[NoSump]

I have discontinued use of C-Balance and the problem appears to be clearing (why it appeared more prominent in the morning is a mystery to me - but it does seem that it was related to the two part calcium/buffering additive).

The other problem which lead to my decision to discontinue C-Balance is that I noticed that my sand bottom was already beginning to develop a crusty covering. I had read that the two part additives can cause the sand bed to solidify - I didn't think that it would occur that fast.

In terms of a replacement strategy, I would rather not go the Kalkwasser route. I am thinking about going with a combination of Reef Builder and Reef Advantage (dry supplements). Are there any unforseen downsides to that strategy?

One other question regarding the calcium/alkaline supplements. I travel a great deal, If I discontinue water treatments for several days while I am away, and start up again upon return - does the on again/off again approach cause any problems?
Chuck

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NoSump

I have discontinued use of C-Balance and the problem appears to be clearing (why it appeared more prominent in the morning is a mystery to me - but it does seem that it was related to the two part calcium/buffering additive).

C-Balance, B-Ionic and any other similar two-component liquid calcium/carbonate additives all work the same because they're all the same stuff. Any clouding would take place immediately following the addition of the second component. This would only happen if the first component had not yet been dispersed in the water column. If the first component is added in a fast moving water current (or in the sump) and you wait at least a couple of minutes before adding the second component, there should be no clouding.

I suppose it might be possible for your clouding to be somehow related to your dosing of C-Balance but that would mean that something was overdosed and then the overnight drop in pH triggered the clouding??? I haven't really thought about this all that much but I'm just throwing this out there as a possibility.

The other problem which lead to my decision to discontinue C-Balance is that I noticed that my sand bottom was already beginning to develop a crusty covering. I had read that the two part additives can cause the sand bed to solidify - I didn't think that it would occur that fast.

If your sand bed is beginning to crust over (clump), then you are doing something wrong. There are any number of things that can cause this but calcium precipitation would be the first possibility that comes to mind. This is not a good sign.

I assume that you are testing your tank's water with good quality test kits and are confident that you know the calcium and alkalinity levels??? What is your alkalinity and what brand of test kits are you using? Do you know what your pH is? You need to take pH readings late in the afternoon while all of the lights are still on and then again early in the morning before the lights come on in order to see what your range is.

In terms of a replacement strategy, I would rather not go the Kalkwasser route. I am thinking about going with a combination of Reef Builder and Reef Advantage (dry supplements). Are there any unforseen downsides to that strategy?

IMO Kalkwasser (limewater) is cheaper and better than the other options other than buying a nice calcium reactor. The two-component liquid additives are good but expensive compared to limewater and they don't precipitate phosphate like limewater. I have never considered any of the dry products as an alternative option.

One other question regarding the calcium/alkaline supplements. I travel a great deal, If I discontinue water treatments for several days while I am away, and start up again upon return - does the on again/off again approach cause any problems?
Chuck

Any swings in water parameters are to be avoided whenever possible. I have the same problem when I go to California for a couple of weeks two or three times a year. I did go away for 10 days once without having anyone add anything to my tank in the way of calcium/carbonate additions and this is how it went: Readings when I left -- Ca 475 ppm, Alk 10.2 dKH. Readings when I got back 10 days later -- Ca 375 ppm, Alk 8 dKH. Not bad, but I wasn't too thrilled with that idea and decided to teach the tank-sitter how to dose B-Ionic while I was gone on my next trip.

Obviously if I had a calcium reactor, I wouldn't have had to worry about it at all. I'm afraid to try to get the tank-sitter to dose limewater every night because of all the problems that could pop up if it were overdosed -- meaning dripped too fast, etc. I decided it was safer to just try to get him to add x-number of spoons of this bottle, wait 3 minutes and then add x-number of spoons of the second bottle, with additions made in the sump. That seemed to work out much better. I had a small drop in both calcium and alkalinity levels during my next vacation, which was for 15 days, but not nearly as much as the time when nothing was added. I decided to go with less than I knew was appropriate because I didn't want to risk having him overdose anything.

[NoSump]

Ninong:

Thanks, I'll run those tests and advise you of the results.

I checked my PH three days ago, and it was actually a little higher than it had been - 8.4.

Chuck

[NoSump]

Posiedon/Reefland:

Whatever it was, it has completely cleared. Based on Posiedon's comments regarding mixing two part solutions- I waited one hour between introduction of Parts A & B. I was initially putting both the calcium and buffer one right after the other (although as the directions stated, I used different measuring utensils). I still don't know why it was more pronounced in the am (before my dosing) - unless it has somthing to do with the PH dropping due to lights/heat?

I am going to keep an eye on the solidification of my sand bed - that would not be good.

Thanks for your help (also, thanks for both your help on my sump project).

Chuck

[Poseidon]

No problem Chuck... you should have seen my tank when I discovered you can't MIX the 2 additives together in a bowl before adding to the tank! My tank turned to MILK! That was years ago now... but goes to show we all make mistakes, I'll bet Ninong even has made a few along the way...