[Franklin]

I recently got two clowns and some damsels, and it appears one of the was carrying what i think is a fungus. My clown is now starting to develop thin white splotches(velvet maybe?) and one of the damsels now has white stuff over its eyes. Any ideas what this is, what I should treat it with, and if I have long enough to order the treatment online? thanks alot

[vtec si]

Hello,

Did you quarentine the fish in a seperate tank (hospital tank) when you got them?

1. you could use copper. (I do not like to to use chemicals)

2. You could fresh water dip them. Just make sure the PH is the same.

3. Or Hyposalinity?

How about Someone jump in there and give me a hand. I do not want to stear him in the wrong direction.

Sorry,

Martin

[Reefland]

Hi Franklin,

Could you tell us a bit more about your system? Size, age, water parameters, equipment used, etc. Also when you say you got 2 clowns and some damsels, how many are you talking about? Where did you get them from? How do the other fish in the store look (trying to identifiy if the store was the problem)?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Franklin

I recently got two clowns

Were they Maroon clowns (Premnas biaculeatus) or some other species?

...and some damsels, and it appears one of the was carrying what i think is a fungus.

Probably not a fungus. Sounds like either Brooklynella hostilis or Amyloodinium ocellatum.

Any ideas what this is, what I should treat it with, and if I have long enough to order the treatment online?

If it's Brooklynella, you should dip the fish in a freshwater bath for 15 minutes. Be sure the pH and temperature are the same as your tank. I need to know if you have Maroons or not to be able to guess at whether it might be Brooklynella.

If it's Amyloodinium, you're in much worse shape. You will probably have to remove the fish to a separate hospital tank for treatment with copper but you're probably too late already.

Obviously we can rule out marine ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) based on your description.

[Franklin]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Were they Maroon clowns (Premnas biaculeatus) or some other species?



Probably not a fungus. Sounds like either Brooklynella hostilis or Amyloodinium ocellatum.



If it's Brooklynella, you should dip the fish in a freshwater bath for 15 minutes. Be sure the pH and temperature are the same as your tank. I need to know if you have Maroons or not to be able to guess at whether it might be Brooklynella.

If it's Amyloodinium, you're in much worse shape. You will probably have to remove the fish to a separate hospital tank for treatment with copper but you're probably too late already.

Obviously we can rule out marine ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) based on your description.

I have a two year old 45g tank with a 30g sump/fuge with 40lbs liverock, precision marine skimmer, and wet/dry. As far as I can tell, the only thing off with my parameters is the nitrate, which is around 40 ppm. I bought the two clowns and three damsels from the lfs. For the most part the other fish looked pretty healthy, and I have bought from them before and they seem to be a pretty good source, although i did see a few floaters. They are Maroon clowns. Thanks for your help.

[Ninong]

I suspected that they were probably Maroon clowns. What you have is probably Brooklynella hostilis. The recommended treatment is a 15 minute dip in freshwater. You have to raise the pH to match your tank's pH and raise the temperature to match your tank's temperature. Give each affected fish a 15 minute dip.

Unfortunately, this may not eliminate the parasite from your system. The only sure way of doing that would be to allow it to remain without fish for at least four weeks. However, go ahead with the freshwater dips and let us know how it goes. You may have to repeat the dips if the symptoms return.

P.S. -- You can see a picture of a Maroon clown with Brooklynella here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm

[Franklin]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I suspected that they were probably Maroon clowns. What you have is probably Brooklynella hostilis. The recommended treatment is a 15 minute dip in freshwater. You have to raise the pH to match your tank's pH and raise the temperature to match your tank's temperature. Give each affected fish a 15 minute dip.

Unfortunately, this may not eliminate the parasite from your system. The only sure way of doing that would be to allow it to remain without fish for at least four weeks. However, go ahead with the freshwater dips and let us know how it goes. You may have to repeat the dips if the symptoms return.

P.S. -- You can see a picture of a Maroon clown with Brooklynella here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm

That picture looks right. Is that probably what is affecting my damsel (with the stuff over its eyes) as well or does it only affect clowns? Also, how do I go about raising the pH? do I need to buy the pH up or whatever they call it?
Thanks alot

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Franklin

Also, how do I go about raising the pH? do I need to buy the pH up or whatever they call it?

Go to the kitchen pantry and see if you have any baking soda. If so, you can use that to raise the pH. I've never had to do a freshwater dip myself, so I'm afraid I can't tell you exactly how much baking soda it will take per liter of water to raise the pH to 8.2 or whatever your tank's pH is. Assuming you are starting with R.O./D.I. water, your starting pH should be approximately 7. Try adding about 1/4 tsp to a liter (quart) of R.O./D.I. water and then test it to see where you are. That will give you an indication of how much it will take to raise your pH to the desired level.

P.S. -- If you don't have R.O./D.I. water, buy some distilled water from the supermarket and use that. Adjust the pH with the baking soda. Be aware of the fact that if you are using tapwater straight from the kitchen faucet and simply treating it with dechlorination/dechlorimination drops, it might have a fairly high pH straight from the tap. My tapwater has a pH above 8.5 straight from the faucet.

[Samper]

Ninong,

Are the Premnas biaculeatus more vulnerable to Brooklynella hostilis and why?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Are the Premnas biaculeatus more vulnerable to Brooklynella hostilis and why?

Yes. I don't know why. Ask Henry. He's the one who wrote that in this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/hcs3/index.htm

[Samper]

I can't ever do a search on RC cause I don't financially support their site so I can't find his name mentioned. What's his name on there so I can chat with him?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

I can't ever do a search on RC cause I don't financially support their site so I can't find his name mentioned. What's his name on there so I can chat with him?

Henry's board name is hcs3: http://reefcentral.com/forums/member...info&userid=35

You don't have to contribute to Reef Central in order to use the search feature. Unfortunately, they have so many members online at the same time lately that they have prioritized access to the search engine. All RC moderators, TRC members (like me and zhenya, who is zenya over there ) and contributing members have unlimited access but when there are a lot of members online at the same time, they turn off the search feature for the general population. Sounds like a prison, doesn't it. Anyway, if you try to search for something when there are fewer than say 1200 members online, you should get through. Most of the time lately they have been running close to 2000 members online.

P.S. -- If you have any questions about any of the articles in RK magazine, you're supposed to post them in that particular author's forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...s=&forumid=123 Maybe you should say that you're asking about his article from the October 2003 issue.

[Franklin]

Alright so I did the freshwater dip for fifteen minutes. Its been about ten minutes now since I put the fish back in the tank, and it looks a bit better, but not that much. How long should it take for the disease to clear up? I'm not sure I can stand to do that again- it looked brutal for the poor clown.
Thanks for all your help.

[Ninong]

Clownfish can tolerate a 15-minute freshwater dip better than most fish and that is the recommended treatment for Brooklynella. However, I'm afraid that there is no good answer to your question because ideally you would want to remove all of the fish from the aquarium and allow the aquarium to remain without any fish at all for a certain period of time. I searched online yesterday and was unable to find any information on the life cycle of Brooklynella hostilis, so I can't say how long the tank should remain fishless.

I'll do another search right now and see if I can come up with more information. Brooklynella hostilis is an ectoparasite just as Cryptocaryon irritans and Amyloodinium ocellatum are but I'm only familiar with the life cycle of C. irritans, the causative agent for marine ich.

Let me see what I can find and I'll stick some links in here as soon as I find anything definitive.

[Franklin]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Clownfish can tolerate a 15-minute freshwater dip better than most fish and that is the recommended treatment for Brooklynella. However, I'm afraid that there is no good answer to your question because ideally you would want to remove all of the fish from the aquarium and allow the aquarium to remain without any fish at all for a certain period of time. I searched online yesterday and was unable to find any information on the life cycle of Brooklynella hostilis, so I can't say how long the tank should remain fishless.

I'll do another search right now and see if I can come up with more information. Brooklynella hostilis is an ectoparasite just as Cryptocaryon irritans and Amyloodinium ocellatum are but I'm only familiar with the life cycle of C. irritans, the causative agent for marine ich.

Let me see what I can find and I'll stick some links in here as soon as I find anything definitive.

If it turns out that I need to do it again, how long should I wait before putting the clown back in fresh water? -I dont want to shock it too much

[Ninong]

OK, this is as good a place as any to start but the author doesn't give the life cycle: http://www.aquariumlandscapes.net/aq...rticles/07.cfm Skip past the first part of the article which deals with a freshwater parasite.

[Ninong]

Robert Fenner mentions Brooklynella but he doesn't give very much information on it: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm

[Ninong]

OK, Fenner discusses it more fully here but he still doesn't give details on the life cycle: http://wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm

The reason I wanted to find out the exact life cycle was to know what other stages it goes through other than the infection stage and how long it spends in each stage. For example, Cryptocaryon irritans has a resting cyst stage that lasts anywhere from four days to 28 days depending on temperature and other factors. This is why the typical recommendation for elimination of marine ich from an aquarium is that all fish must be removed and the aquarium must remain without any fish for four to six weeks. If someone wanted to cheat, they could remove all fish and raise the temperature in the aquarium to 83 degrees Fahrenheit for ten days. That should be ample time at that temperature for all of the cysts to mature into tomites, which differentiate into ciliated theronts. The theronts then die within a matter of hours if they cannot find a suitable host (fish).

Unfortunately all of the information that I can find seems to indicate that all of the ectoparasites have a life cycle that requires removal of all fish from the aquarium for a certain period of time to break the cycle. I just can't seem to find any specifics on the life cycle of Brooklynella. Everybody seems to say the same thing for all of the various protozoan ectoparasites and that is that you should allow your display tank to remain fishless for at least four weeks.

Just google "Brooklynella hostilis treatment" and "Brooklynella hostilis life cycle" and see if you can find anything more definitive.

P.S. -- I did find three or four sources that agreed that 15-minute freshwater baths were the recommended treatment but Fenner does suggest formalin as an alternative. All of those sources agree that copper is not effective. The reason I point that out is because a few sources that I don't particularly trust still recommend copper.

[Franklin]

I have a large pond uv filter- I dont suppose I could use that to get rid of it without removing the other fish?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Franklin

I have a large pond uv filter- I dont suppose I could use that to get rid of it without removing the other fish?

A UV filter would certainly be of help in this particular situation. I have a 40w Aqua-Ultraviolet myself but I have never used it on my aquarium.

That is certainly an option if you are willing to go to all that trouble. It may take care of things for you. The alternative, assuming you can't remove all of the fish to a Q-tank for a month, is to watch your fish die off and hope that some of them survive.

Just remember that the UV only kills whatever passes through the tube. If some of the parasites do not happen to pass through the tube, they won't be killed. I'm sure you already know this but I'm sticking it in here anyway for the benefit of others.

I need to know what wattage your UV lamp is so that I can look up the dwell time to get a dose high enough to kill protozoa???