[cofstl411]

How toxic is a foxface lo? I am planning on getting one and a website that sells them says they are not responsible for deaths that may occur from this fish. It sounds pretty deadly so maybe I will rethink my selection.

[charlie]

First off, what other fish do you have in your system? I have only had 1, and I had a bad experience with it. It killed a flame angel, and that was the last thing it did!!! I also know of a few people that have not had any problems with theirs??? I guess it all runs down to the individual fish.

[zhenya]

Well, I have been keeping my Siganus(Lo) unimaculatus for couple of years in my 110g tank.I had not seen him act agressively towards any of the tankmates. For the most part it was my Yellow tang that were trying to give him a hard time in the begining but since first few weeks those two are inseparable pair.

How toxic they are? According to Rudie Kuiter, in his book "Surgeonfishes, Rabbitfishes and their relatives", stab from one of the spines causes agonising pain. How lethal it may be will depend on how allergic you are to the toxin, I suppose. I haven't found any specific information in this regard as yet.

[kevinpo]

I know of a couple of people that have been stuck by them and they are still alive and well. One guys thumb looked like it had been hit by a hammer on the nail. The end of it was swollen with a hole in it. He said it only hurt for a couple of days but it sure looked painful to me. I also know of 3 people that have been poked by Lion Fish with similar results (swelling, redness, and pain). None were hospitalized or died.

Regards,
Kevin

[cofstl411]

Originally Posted by charlie

First off, what other fish do you have in your system?

I have 2 clownfish, 1 firefish, 1 scooter blennie, and 3 blue/green chromis. I also have some inverts as well. I plan on getting the Foxface and a Royale Gramma to finish off my fish population.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by cofstl411

How toxic is a foxface lo?

They're not toxic at all but their dorsal and anal spines are venomous.

I am planning on getting one and a website that sells them says they are not responsible for deaths that may occur from this fish. It sounds pretty deadly so maybe I will rethink my selection.

That's a gross exaggeration. I have never heard of deaths caused by any of the foxface species. I have heard of deaths caused by blue ringed octopuses and cone snails but not rabbitfishes. It might be possible to die from stepping on a stonefish. Maybe. I'm not about to try it.

How painful the encounter with a Siganus spp. rabbitfish is depends on the severity of the envenomization. It is not nearly as bad as an encounter with a lionfish.

I have had my Siganus vulpinus for about 22 months now and he never even comes close to my hand when I'm cleaning the glass or moving anything in the tank. He does eat out of my hand, just as the fairy wrasses do. He is a very timid fish that is scared to death by sudden suprise movements near the tank. Sometimes he's scared to death for no reason at all. If I want to bring him out of it, all I have to do is feed the tank. He gets over his fright coloration in a hurry.

[Poseidon]

Are you asking about being deadly to people or dead to other tankmates? I have never heard of a Foxface using his spines to attack other fish...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Are you asking about being deadly to people or dead to other tankmates? I have never heard of a Foxface using his spines to attack other fish...

Actually that's what they're for but not as an offensive weapon, as a defensive weapon.

[Poseidon]

Ya thats what I meant, attacking means offensive to me. Like the lion fish... I don't see them as an aggresive species either, just a prepared one! However I have witnessed a fairly large Lion fish being chomped in half by a very large wolf eel, who then promptly swallowed the tail section and let the head and spines float away harmlessly... It was an attack from below and behind, I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it!

[FesteringGob]

I have one in my tank and I have never been stung. I am not sure what is up, but mine seems to rarely be happy. The things I have read say that when they are upset or the water is not right and other factors, they will get white with black spots. Mine is like this most of the day. He is not bold and yellow like I have seen others. My water is in great shape now and I guess he is just not happy. The other fish leave him alone. I don't think I would buy another one. Just me $.02

[FesteringGob]

Originally Posted by Ninong

They're not toxic at all but their dorsal and anal spines are venomous.



That's a gross exaggeration. I have never heard of deaths caused by any of the foxface species. I have heard of deaths caused by blue ringed octopuses and cone snails but not rabbitfishes. It might be possible to die from stepping on a stonefish. Maybe. I'm not about to try it.

How painful the encounter with a Siganus spp. rabbitfish is depends on the severity of the envenomization. It is not nearly as bad as an encounter with a lionfish.

I have had my Siganus vulpinus for about 22 months now and he never even comes close to my hand when I'm cleaning the glass or moving anything in the tank. He does eat out of my hand, just as the fairy wrasses do. He is a very timid fish that is scared to death by sudden suprise movements near the tank. Sometimes he's scared to death for no reason at all. If I want to bring him out of it, all I have to do is feed the tank. He gets over his fright coloration in a hurry.

What do you feed him for this? I give him algae and was wondering what you would suggest to feed them for making him bright yellow again. The sudden movements makes sense to me as well. I have 2 kids that are always running through the house.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by FesteringGob

What do you feed him for this? I give him algae and was wondering what you would suggest to feed them for making him bright yellow again. The sudden movements makes sense to me as well. I have 2 kids that are always running through the house.

Besides my Siganus vulpinus, I have a Pseudochromis fridmani, two Cirrhilabrus species fairy wrasses and a Centropyge bispinosa angelfish, so I feed the tank a wide variety of foods: Ocean Nutrition Formula Two in both flake and frozen, freeze dried Cyclop-Eeze (for the fairy wrasses and the dottyback), frozen Mysis shrimp, frozen brine shrimp, frozen squid, shrimp pellets, nori, Formula One flake, etc.

Rabbitfishes need to eat algae based foods every day.

[cofstl411]

Originally Posted by Ninong

They're not toxic at all but their dorsal and anal spines are venomous.

Main Entry: toxic
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: poisonous
Synonyms: baneful, deadly, harmful, lethal, mephitic, noxious, pernicious, pestilential, poison, septic, toxicant, venomous, virulent

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by cofstl411

Main Entry: toxic
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: poisonous
Synonyms: baneful, deadly, harmful, lethal, mephitic, noxious, pernicious, pestilential, poison, septic, toxicant, venomous, virulent

In biology one usually makes a distinction between an animal that is toxic and one that is venomous. For example, a rattlesnake is venomous. It has glands that produce and excrete venom which is injected into its victims by biting them. It is perfectly safe to eat rattlesnake steaks because there are no toxins in the snake's tissues.

Rabbitfish are venomous because they inject venom into their victims. The venom is transmitted through hollow spines in their dorsal and anal fins. However, they are not toxic. It is perfectly safe to eat rabbitfish and many fishermen in the South Pacific eat them raw as soon as they catch them. That's not something they are likely to do with pufferfish. Pufferfish are not venomous because they have no means of injecting venom in their victims. They are toxic, however, because they store toxins in their organs. That's why sushi chefs that work with pufferfish have to be extremely well trained so that they don't kill their customers. A few people do die every now and then in Japan from eating pufferfish.

Many nudibranchs are toxic because they sequester the poisons that they acquire from the sponges they prey on. There are other recognized subtle differences, too. For example, Mandarin Dragonets have noxious slime as opposed to some nudibranchs that have toxic slime.




P.S. -- The subspecies name Lo is no longer valid. The two common foxface rabbitfishes that are sold in the hobby are the Siganus vulpinus, commonly called the Foxface Rabbitfish and the Signaus unimaculatus, commonly called the One-spot Rabbitfish. Vendors who still use the common name Foxface Lo could mean either of those two species.