[Midnight Tboy]

Hey there,

I've just been hunting more information and have come across this site.

This is the deal.....I've only dabbled with fish in the past with a small tank and coldwater fish...now I have caught the bug bigtime and reading up wherever I can the last few days on the net and I'm on the verge of purchasing a tank. http://www.aquaone.com.au/curvedglas...620_ar980).htm the AR980 215l model at the bottom is the tank that I'm expecting I'll probably buy as it seems best value and with built in features etc (price including stand £310 here). That tank comes with a built in wet/dry trickle filter in the hood.

At first, obviously only previously knowing about coldfish, the idea was to go for tropical fish, however I saw the beauty of marine fish and reefs etc and was fascinated and I'm pretty sure that this is the path that I want to go down, I have the devotion to do so, however I don't have the budget (this time next year we'll be millionaires Rodney) to stretch to thousands of pounds worth of high tech equipment.

Anyways, to get to the nitty gritty....now I like the idea of starting a living reef inside the tank, however I think that I may be better off starting with Fish Only and adding that later when I know I can look after them well enough.

Now when I was speaking to a salesman earlier today (in a garden center rather than a dedicated fish store), he seemed to indicate that for saltwater fish I would HAVE to have a big powerfilter (that he showed me which was stored taking half the cabinet underneath one of the tanks there), I can't remember the name of that type to be honest - he indicated around £80 would be the cost. Also he said a protein skimmer would be an essential item too.

Upon reading through some information, and its now getting late, just turning 4am , on http://saltaquarium.about.com/ , I seem to get the impression that firstly a trickle filter system is more than adequate for a saltwater setup? would the built in one be powerful/suitable enough or are the trickle filter systems they refer to of a different design and thereby much more powerful to a built in one?

Secondly, with a tank of that size, to get me started I'm thinking of (whilst still waiting for the tank to cycle etc) a fish only setup, maybe 2-4 clownfish and something else that takes my fancy, or some form of shrimp or snails. At that point, would a protein skimmer be essential? or would it only become more essential at a later date when I was to add more fish, or living rock? Ideally if I could hold off buying a skimmer, then I'm more likely to go ahead with the option for affordability.

Lastly, if I was to buy a skimmer, does it connect into the tank seperately, or would it somehow have to interface with my built in trickle filter? Obviously if having to interface it somehow by way of cutting holes around would defeat the purpose of buying a nice tank with the filter systems built in.

hope you guys/girls can help, I'm getting eager to even get the tank ordered so I can wait the cycling time (handily while I'm away on holiday )


cheers,
Tuck

[The R/C Man]

Hi Tuck and Welcome to Reefland!

Well it is nice to hear that someone else has gotten the bug. It is a very rewarding hobby so long as you take the time to do the research and do it right the first time. Starting with a fish only tank is a good way to get into the hobby and it will minimize your intial expenses. So lets talk about what you will need. First the tank. Since you are planning to have corals down the road you should opt for a larger tank. 55 - 75 gallons is a good size and it should be the longer versions not the tall ones. This will help for lighting the corals in the future. Also larger tank is more stable due to the larger amount of water. To start a fish only tank most people use live rock (1-2lbs per gallon) This will be your biological filtration. Next you will need a protein skimmer... These are important for removing disolved organics and your tank will not fair well with out it and will eventually crash.. For a fish only tank you will not need much in the way of lighting but a good start would be VHO's. (very high output) These can be used to offset Metal Halide lighting that you will need for the corals in the future. To help increase the water volume you can always add a sump/refugium under your tank. This is a place to grow macroalgae to reduce the nitrates in your tank. You can also hide your equipment in the sump such as heaters your skimmer etc. Ok that was a lot of info to digest.

To sum it all up. A tank, live rock and a good skimmer will get you started. You can always add the sump later. Oh, stay away from trickle filters, they are old technology. The best method of filtration is the natural way. I hope this helped and didn't overwelm you.......

[Midnight Tboy]

thanks for the advice, I think I will go ahead and purchase a skimmer sooner rather than later then if I'm going to do this. To clarify though, if I'm investing in buying live rock, alongside the skimmer, then I won't need to bother buying/using another filter, be it a wet/dry filter, or an external power filter.

cheers again,
Tuck

[Reefland]

You got it! This also assumes that you have lighting, temperature control and water flow covered.

[The R/C Man]

Hey Tuck!

Nope that is all you will need.... The live rock and I can't stress enough a GOOD SKIMMER.... That will maintain your tank along with monthly water changes. Also the live rock will start the cylce in your tank so you don't want to add fish for a month after the rock has been introduced.... Good Luck......

[Marine_Freak]

I noticed no one had mentioned yet a refugium running rdp instead of a trackile filter.... good place to grow critters for fish food and a good way to stop or decrease problematic algae, and is very good way oxgenate the water and keep your PH stable.

Shawn

[The R/C Man]

Welcome to Reefland Marine Freak!

Yap I got the refugium stuck in there somewhere... However I did neglect your topics. Very good points I may add! Lets also throw in nitrate reduction for good measure....

[Cims]

what about running miracle mud in a refgium and no skimmer for a new 240g? ( will let it cycle and correct parameters before adding fish)

[Reefland]

A refugium with a sandbed or Miracle Mud would definitely be beneficial but you should still incorporate a very good protein skimmer. Bob Fenner makes a statement that I like "If anyone is willing to drink the product from one weeks worth of skimming, I am willing to admit that a skimmer isn't needed"..or something very close to that. I tend to agree. Any tank will benefit from a skimmer, even one with other rigorous nutrient export controls.

[The R/C Man]

You can use Miracle Mud in the fuge but as far as I know all it does is provide a really fine material for plants to root in. To save money you can mix it with the sand.

You can run the tank without the fuge but I would not recommend running any saltwater tank without a skimmer. They are essential....

[Midnight Tboy]

is there any specific model (available in the UK) that you guys would recommend as a protein skimmer to use

[The R/C Man]

That is a good question.... I know there are some good German made skimmers that you should be able to get. I did a search on the UK Google and found these..... http://www.store.livingseas.co.uk/in...AYCAT&catid=96

Well there were others but Deltec seemed to be the main selection. From what I have heard the are good skimmers...

[Midnight Tboy]

wicked

I must admit, after a while, I chickened out of the idea of spending the money,having a new baby recently etc amongst other factors, aswell as the confusing info seemed to get at times from speaking to some of the local fish shops, some seemed determined to put people off the idea. So in the end, I've stuck with a given 2ftx1ft small tank with a few coldwater fish just to test the water so to speak. I think another factor that put me off, was it seemed to be from hearing/reading, that its nigh on impossible to breed anything in a marine tank. Not that I'm planning on breeding them like crazy, but its nice to think of being able to watch my tank grow and blossom with new offspring rather than just wait till old ones die to be replaced with new. is this the case, or if left to their own devices could some fish manage to breed naturally without intervention?

Now its near xmas, I'm thinking of finally taking the plunge and going all hog to get the marine setup and a new tank for my main treat anyways....so I'm just wondering to myself.....what would you say the typical monthly cost, initial equipment aside, would be of running a marine aquarium compared to a fairly stable coldwater setup where its a case of a quick clean of filter once in while, simple water change, and a large tub of flakes,etc at the local store?

cheers again,
Tuck