things are not going well...

jenstaley · 10-03-2005, 11:39 AM

Hey everyone. I am having bad luck with my fish, and need advice. My puffer got waht appeared to be ich, so I got some medicine from my LFS I think it was melafix. I do have some snails and hermit crabs, so I have to be carefull what I use. THe puffer died the next day, then one of my clown fish got the ich even though I was medicating, and he died. My racoon fish died last week.... what on earth is going on . My water is still testing normal in all areas, I am so confused. All I have left is 1 clown, a snowflake eel, a hawkfish, and 3 yellow damsels. I heard something about feeding garlic... can anyone fill me in on that?
thanks,
jen

**Poseidon** · 10-03-2005, 01:08 PM

How big is your tank, and how long has it been up?

jenstaley · 10-03-2005, 01:12 PM

My tank is 80 gallons, and has been up for 7 months.... cycled with 5 damsels, and everything was fine until now! I have been adding fish 1 or 2 at a time at most, and my most recent addition was 3 weeks ago.

**Poseidon** · 10-03-2005, 11:19 PM

My first instinct is that overcrowding lead to stress, which lead to an outbreak of the ever present C. irritans. My experience in saltwater has been that of FEWER carefully chosen fish will do much better then a larger number of fish. Especially the mix you mention. Some like the hawk and Eel are VERY terretorial (sp?) others like the clown docile... Make a move and chose if you want aggressive or passive fish, your tank inhabitants will thank you for it!

#99 · 10-04-2005, 02:35 AM

Just FYI melafix wont cure ich.How often do you do water changes?What are your water parems?
Matt

Peterock · 10-04-2005, 02:41 AM

I had a bad problem with trying to keep fish in my 72 bow until i created this food which will 1 fight ich in about 1-2 days, 2 boost there immune system to got get sick again, 3 provide all the basics and a mixed variety in evey feeding.

3 cubes of Brine Shrimp
3 cubes of Marine Cuisine
3 cubes of Emerald Entree
1 cube of Squid
4-5 pieces of diced Krill
8 drops of Garlic Extreme
1/4 teaspoon Ginger powder
diced Scallops

Mix all together in a small container and Freeze until use....

***Reefland*** · 10-04-2005, 11:01 AM

Yeah I definitely agree that there is a problem here. Not sure what it might be though. Can you tell us what your water parameters are? What do you use for filtration and what and when was your last addition?

yankeebobo · 10-04-2005, 01:25 PM

I don't know if this is possible, but it may be time to consider a QT tank for the fish that still need help. You can then treat with ich treatment, or the above recipe. Either way, I wouldn't continue adding chemicals to the reef that are not beneficial to anything.

jenstaley · 10-04-2005, 07:22 PM

ok, my tank is an 80 gallon, been up for about 7 months. I have added fish slowly, 1 or 2 at a time, with about 3-4 weeks minimum in between. The last addition being the snowflake eel about 3 weeks ago. My water parameters are
Amonia .25
Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
PH 7.25
I have an ehiem canister filter, UV sterilizer, and rio powerhead running.

can you guys tell me more about the garlic for immune system boosts?
Also, I could put a quarintine tank under the cabinet.... do I need filters and all that for the QT tank? I dont have room or money for that.

Steven Pro · 10-04-2005, 08:05 PM

I just wrote an article on garlic,
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php

And, here is my piece on quarantine tanks.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-1...ture/index.htm

Under the tank is fine, but you will need a filter and heater, but this is very cheap insurance against disease and is less expensive than dubious 'reef-safe' treatments.

**Poseidon** · 10-04-2005, 10:32 PM

why is your pH so low? It should be in the 8.1-8.3 range. That can be a big part of the problem. What are you using for substrate? In saltwater tanks the "gravel" makes a big difference in a tanks buffering capacity.

***Reefland*** · 10-04-2005, 11:07 PM

Good catch Mike, I totally missed that. I thought my pH was bad at 7.8 at night!

BTW, 3,000 posts for Mike now! Thanks for all your contributions to Reefland.com my friend.

Steven Pro · 10-05-2005, 06:04 AM

Detectable ammonia (0.25 ppm) is also a problem. By the way, what is your salinity/specific gravity and temperature?

**Poseidon** · 10-05-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefland

Good catch Mike, I totally missed that. I thought my pH was bad at 7.8 at night!

BTW, 3,000 posts for Mike now! Thanks for all your contributions to Reefland.com my friend.

I don't think I'll ever catch up to you or George though!

yankeebobo · 10-05-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poseidon

I don't think I'll ever catch up to you or George though!

They'd have to take a little vacation.

***Reefland*** · 10-05-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeebobo

They'd have to take a little vacation.

I'm ready for one!

dougc · 10-05-2005, 11:10 PM

There is no scientific evidence that ich is "omnipresent". In fact, experiments have shown that the longest an ich parasite can last without a host is around six weeks, and that was at a lower temperature than we keep our tanks. Ich must have a fish host or it will die.

Under ideal conditions, with a low stocking level and good water conditions, your fish may appear to be ich-free. Some fish can even develop some immunity to the parasites. Most likely, there are a few parasites lurking around, probably on the fish's gills where you can't see them. Any stress, though, can cause an outbreak, as may have happened with your tank with low pH and high ammonia levels. As long as you have fish in the tank, you will probably have ich. Because copper, the only proven chemical cure for ich, is lethal to invertebrates, you cannot use it in the tank. Hyposalinity is not recommended in a tank with live rock and its attendant invertebrates, either. The only sure way to get rid of the ich now in your tank is to move all the fish to a quarantine tank, treat them with hyposalinity or copper, and leave the tank fishless for at least six weeks. Alternatively, you could rely on unproven treatments such as garlic, Rid-Ich, or the sacrifice of chickens. This may appear to work, especially if your water conditions happen to improve at the same time, causing you to jump on the "ich is omnipresent" bandwagon.

There should be a law that requires the use of quarantine tanks. Having takes away the instant gratification that you get by running home with a new fish and dumping it into the display tank, but the grief it saves more than compensates. Remember, the most important investment is the healthy fish that are already in your tank.

10-03-2005, 11:39 AM	#1
jenstaley Just Moved In Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Show Low, AZ Posts: 22	things are not going well... Hey everyone. I am having bad luck with my fish, and need advice. My puffer got waht appeared to be ich, so I got some medicine from my LFS I think it was melafix. I do have some snails and hermit crabs, so I have to be carefull what I use. THe puffer died the next day, then one of my clown fish got the ich even though I was medicating, and he died. My racoon fish died last week.... what on earth is going on . My water is still testing normal in all areas, I am so confused. All I have left is 1 clown, a snowflake eel, a hawkfish, and 3 yellow damsels. I heard something about feeding garlic... can anyone fill me in on that? thanks, jen

10-03-2005, 01:08 PM	#2
Poseidon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Swartz Creek, MI Posts: 6,183	How big is your tank, and how long has it been up? __________________ Need a Photographer? Just say NO to CRABS Mike

10-03-2005, 11:19 PM	#4
Poseidon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Swartz Creek, MI Posts: 6,183	My first instinct is that overcrowding lead to stress, which lead to an outbreak of the ever present C. irritans. My experience in saltwater has been that of FEWER carefully chosen fish will do much better then a larger number of fish. Especially the mix you mention. Some like the hawk and Eel are VERY terretorial (sp?) others like the clown docile... Make a move and chose if you want aggressive or passive fish, your tank inhabitants will thank you for it! __________________ Need a Photographer? Just say NO to CRABS Mike

10-04-2005, 02:35 AM	#5
#99 sponsor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 30	Just FYI melafix wont cure ich.How often do you do water changes?What are your water parems? Matt __________________ Disasters happen quikly,success takes time and patience. --------------------------------------------------- my online store http://allaquatics.net

10-04-2005, 11:01 AM	#7
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,009	Yeah I definitely agree that there is a problem here. Not sure what it might be though. Can you tell us what your water parameters are? What do you use for filtration and what and when was your last addition? __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

10-03-2005, 01:12 PM	#3
jenstaley Just Moved In Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Show Low, AZ Posts: 22	My tank is 80 gallons, and has been up for 7 months.... cycled with 5 damsels, and everything was fine until now! I have been adding fish 1 or 2 at a time at most, and my most recent addition was 3 weeks ago.

10-04-2005, 02:41 AM	#6
Peterock Citizen Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nashville Posts: 185	I had a bad problem with trying to keep fish in my 72 bow until i created this food which will 1 fight ich in about 1-2 days, 2 boost there immune system to got get sick again, 3 provide all the basics and a mixed variety in evey feeding. 3 cubes of Brine Shrimp 3 cubes of Marine Cuisine 3 cubes of Emerald Entree 1 cube of Squid 4-5 pieces of diced Krill 8 drops of Garlic Extreme 1/4 teaspoon Ginger powder diced Scallops Mix all together in a small container and Freeze until use....

10-04-2005, 01:25 PM	#8
yankeebobo Citizen Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Western MA Posts: 129	I don't know if this is possible, but it may be time to consider a QT tank for the fish that still need help. You can then treat with ich treatment, or the above recipe. Either way, I wouldn't continue adding chemicals to the reef that are not beneficial to anything. __________________ Bo 58 Gallon Reef Tank Log Our Loft

10-04-2005, 07:22 PM	#9
jenstaley Just Moved In Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Show Low, AZ Posts: 22	ok, my tank is an 80 gallon, been up for about 7 months. I have added fish slowly, 1 or 2 at a time, with about 3-4 weeks minimum in between. The last addition being the snowflake eel about 3 weeks ago. My water parameters are Amonia .25 Nitrates 0 Nitrites 0 PH 7.25 I have an ehiem canister filter, UV sterilizer, and rio powerhead running. can you guys tell me more about the garlic for immune system boosts? Also, I could put a quarintine tank under the cabinet.... do I need filters and all that for the QT tank? I dont have room or money for that.

10-04-2005, 08:05 PM	#10
Steven Pro Mayor Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 672	I just wrote an article on garlic, http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php And, here is my piece on quarantine tanks. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-1...ture/index.htm Under the tank is fine, but you will need a filter and heater, but this is very cheap insurance against disease and is less expensive than dubious 'reef-safe' treatments.

10-04-2005, 10:32 PM	#11
Poseidon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Swartz Creek, MI Posts: 6,183	why is your pH so low? It should be in the 8.1-8.3 range. That can be a big part of the problem. What are you using for substrate? In saltwater tanks the "gravel" makes a big difference in a tanks buffering capacity. __________________ Need a Photographer? Just say NO to CRABS Mike

10-04-2005, 11:07 PM	#12
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,009	Good catch Mike, I totally missed that. I thought my pH was bad at 7.8 at night! BTW, 3,000 posts for Mike now! Thanks for all your contributions to Reefland.com my friend. __________________ Scott Z. 75 Gallon Reef Log Powered by Reefland's Personal Online Aquarium Log

10-05-2005, 06:04 AM	#13
Steven Pro Mayor Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 672	Detectable ammonia (0.25 ppm) is also a problem. By the way, what is your salinity/specific gravity and temperature?

10-05-2005, 11:10 PM	#17
dougc Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Posts: 481	There is no scientific evidence that ich is "omnipresent". In fact, experiments have shown that the longest an ich parasite can last without a host is around six weeks, and that was at a lower temperature than we keep our tanks. Ich must have a fish host or it will die. Under ideal conditions, with a low stocking level and good water conditions, your fish may appear to be ich-free. Some fish can even develop some immunity to the parasites. Most likely, there are a few parasites lurking around, probably on the fish's gills where you can't see them. Any stress, though, can cause an outbreak, as may have happened with your tank with low pH and high ammonia levels. As long as you have fish in the tank, you will probably have ich. Because copper, the only proven chemical cure for ich, is lethal to invertebrates, you cannot use it in the tank. Hyposalinity is not recommended in a tank with live rock and its attendant invertebrates, either. The only sure way to get rid of the ich now in your tank is to move all the fish to a quarantine tank, treat them with hyposalinity or copper, and leave the tank fishless for at least six weeks. Alternatively, you could rely on unproven treatments such as garlic, Rid-Ich, or the sacrifice of chickens. This may appear to work, especially if your water conditions happen to improve at the same time, causing you to jump on the "ich is omnipresent" bandwagon. There should be a law that requires the use of quarantine tanks. Having takes away the instant gratification that you get by running home with a new fish and dumping it into the display tank, but the grief it saves more than compensates. Remember, the most important investment is the healthy fish that are already in your tank.

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