Lowering ammonia

[curtis_rachel]

Aside from water changes, and cutting back on feeding, what are the quickest ways to lower/eradicate ammonia levels? I'm setting up a QT for my angel (has ICH), started setting it up yesterday-- I tested the ammonia levels last night and today. Both readings are .50. Should I take out some of the water or is there something else I should do?

[Reefland]

Did you use all new water for the Q tank and are the fish already in there? If you used new water and there is nothing in the tank then I would suspect it's your test kit as there is nothing to have caused ammonia in the tank. However if you have fish in there already, then you will need to do some very aggressive water changes.

[The R/C Man]

Are the high ammonia levels are in your main tank or your QT? As Scott mentioned if they are in your QT tank then it maybe a test kit issue. What brand of kit are you using? If the problem is in your display tank then there may be other issues.... What type of filtration are you using? Do you have live rock in the tank and what type substrate are you using? What size tank do you have and how many fish are in there? Those answers will help to better indentify the problem....

[curtis_rachel]

Sorry -- here are the details; The QT is a 20 gal and it is the one with high levels; about 10 gals are from the main tank and 10 was new water. For a filter, I just purchased a hang on filter. The testkit is the Saltwater Master Kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. I have not put any of the fish in yet, as I've been concerned about the ammonia levels. Should I do a water change in the QT -- and then, should I put my fish in right away or should I try to let the water cycle? I'm worried about my juv. emp. angel -- he is not looking good. I want to get him in as soon as possible.

***edited to add: our main tank did have some ammonia in it earlier this week; we've done two water changes since then.

[The R/C Man]

Well I am not familar with the test kit you mentioned so I can't point to that as a problem. However, I am concered that if it is correct your display tank has a really high ammonia problem. Especially if you used half new water in addition to the displays water for the QT. That means your display water is twice as high! You may want to do some more water changes on the main tank.

That is a good question about the cycle. I would think that if it is bare bottom you will be ok with just doing another change to drop the ammonia levels.

Remember you will still need to aclimate the fish for the move.

I have the same questions as above about your display tank.... Filtration, live rock etc....

[Reefland]

Another option would be to take a cup of water from each the display and the Q tank to a LFS and have them perform an ammonia test for you to verify your test kit. I would like to know if the test kit is giing poor results. Better yet, pick up a quality Salifert Ammonia test and see what you get from it.

[curtis_rachel]

Main tank details (55 gal): two biowheel filters, UV sterilizer, live sand, 30 lbs LR.

QT has no substrate -- I just got back from the store; am doing water changes in both tanks, then acclimating fish to QT and moving them over. Thank you so much for your advice; will have lfs test water for us to see if our test is accurate.

[curtis_rachel]

I am very confused; I just did a 50% water change of the QT. Now the ammonia is reading even higher than before I completed the change. I tested some of my RO water, just to check my test -- it showed ammonia at 0. Why would my ammonia level go up after doing a water change?

I did put coppersafe it, which is the method we're going to use to treat the fish (I carefully followed the directions and tested the levels to make sure they are where they need to be). Could it affect an ammonia reading?

I tested our main tank and it is back to near 0 as well.

Again, I really, really, really appreciate all of the advice/help you two have given me this weekend!!!! As much as I have worried and stressed about this, it's been nice to know that there are people with the knowlege and experience to help!

[Reefland]

Did you test your new water after you mixed in the salt but before you put it in the tank?

[curtis_rachel]

No -- I tested the salt-water after putting it in the tank. And, then I tested the extra RO water (w/o salt) that I had, discovering it had 0 ammonia.

We still have a 5 gal bucket of RO water -- it has tested at 0 for ammonia; we are planning to use it as a "QT" for this fish, until the levels in the real QT go down. . . just so we can get him in a healthy environment and begin treatment.

[ldrhawke]

I am very confused; I just did a 50% water change of the QT. Now the ammonia is reading even higher than before I completed the change.................
I did put coppersafe , .............!

The bacteria that was present in the tank processing the ammonia took a hit when you added coppersafe. Copper is highly toxic to bacteria. This would cause a rise in the ammonia because it is no longer being processed.

[Richard Boyd]

Did you use all new water for the Q tank and are the fish already in there? If you used new water and there is nothing in the tank then I would suspect it's your test kit as there is nothing to have caused ammonia in the tank. However if you have fish in there already, then you will need to do some very aggressive water changes.

Test untreated tapwater with the kit, if it shows that there is between 0.5 and 1 ppm ammonia, that means your local water source treats water with chloramine instead of chlorine. Just as there are water treatment kits to remove chlorine, there are also kits that remove chloramines (some even do both and bind up ammonia in ammonium). I prefer "Prime" by Seachem but you're more than welcome to shop around to see if there are any products that are marketed towards your specific species of fish.

[Original Fin]

I did not know that. Thanks for sharing! Do you know if your usual RODI resins and sediment filters would bind the chloramines, or would you need an additional stage with specific media?

[Reefing Madness]

Normal RO with DI systems will take your TDS to 0. Nothing will be left in the water column.

[Original Fin]

This is where my understanding of water filtration gets fuzzy.

Yes, my unit has an inline TDS meter, and it does take it to zero. What I was unclear on is what exactly that means...disolved solids. Does that account for everything that could potentially be in the water collumn leaving only completely pure H2O? Whether or not something enters water as a solid I imagine depends on temperature and pressure. Aren't there gasses that can still exist in the water column after filtration?

[Reefing Madness]

This is where my understanding of water filtration gets fuzzy.

Yes, my unit has an inline TDS meter, and it does take it to zero. What I was unclear on is what exactly that means...disolved solids. Does that account for everything that could potentially be in the water collumn leaving only completely pure H2O? Whether or not something enters water as a solid I imagine depends on temperature and pressure. Aren't there gasses that can still exist in the water column after filtration?

Now your getting into molecules. Usually the gasses are exchanged in the container you are storing the water in. An RO unit itself will not take all the garbage out of your water. Hence the DI, thats the one almost cleans out the rest. And, no, the water is still only 99.99% cleaned out. Some use 2 DI canisters to clear out everything. Most RO membranes working correctly will clear out the chlorine, trates, trites, ammonia and heavy metals, after they have gone through the sediment and 2 carbon filters.

[Original Fin]

When I was shopping for my RODI, I noticed that one particular company had cartridges specifically marketed towards users with chloramines in their city water.
That's why I was wondering if that's something that's really needed, or is it just an nth degree of filtration that has a minuscule effect?


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[Reefing Madness]

Just more crap they are trying to sell you. A normal RO will take that out of the water column. Normal RO takes 98%-99% of the garbage out of the water, depending on your cities water. When buying filters for your system, buy the 1 micron sediment and 1mic carbon filters.

[Richard Boyd]

Normal RO with DI systems will take your TDS to 0. Nothing will be left in the water column.

TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. As Ammonia is not a solid, a TDS reading will not help you. Most of the Carbon filters I have seen for RO units will only break up the Chloramine into Chlorine and Ammonia, then filter the chlorine (leaving the ammonia in the water)

GENERAL INFO ON REVERSE OSMOSIS (just for info, I'm not endorsing any particular RO units)

As for using a DI system (or two) "DI" stands for "De-Ionization" ammonia is NH3 and it not ionic so it would not be removed, however ammonium NH3+ would be removed by a DI unit. (Ammonium is what is produced when you add products like Ammo-lock to you tank)

[Reefing Madness]

TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. As Ammonia is not a solid, a TDS reading will not help you. Most of the Carbon filters I have seen for RO units will only break up the Chloramine into Chlorine and Ammonia, then filter the chlorine (leaving the ammonia in the water)

GENERAL INFO ON REVERSE OSMOSIS (just for info, I'm not endorsing any particular RO units)

As for using a DI system (or two) "DI" stands for "De-Ionization" ammonia is NH3 and it not ionic so it would not be removed, however ammonium NH3+ would be removed by a DI unit. (Ammonium is what is produced when you add products like Ammo-lock to you tank)

Correct. So, any normal RO/DI unit will remove 99.9% of all crap from the water. In laymens terms.