[dave00gt]

Hi , im new to these forums, and i see everybody is helpful here and nice, well i am now doig my first saltwater aquarium in a 50 gallon tank. I have questions??

i have water there already set up with rocks (as in little rocks) from previous tropical fish, its still filtrating with and undergravel filtering kit.

Questions .

1. Should i dump the water out, and start with new water ?

2. Do saltwater fish need live plants? My fish are going to consist of orange clown fish, yellow tang .. but the little try out fish will be a simple cheap fish..but mainly the clown fish and yellow tanh after everything is good to go.

3. Do i really need a PH kit? i see one here at my local pet store for 30 bucks .. but hey if i need it i need it.

4. what should i measure , and at what time intervals.

5. how soon could i put the lil testing saltwater guy in there with my instant ocean sea salt.

Ok guys this is what i know, and what i currently have for my little saltwater aquarium.
1. Protein skimmer good for 70gallons
2. 50 gallon fish tank
3. Hydrometer--cost me like 8 bucks,
4. Undergravel filtering kit with powerheads
5. gravel rocks
6. Instant ocean sea salt

as far as i know ..

first dechorinate the water, then mix instant ocean, mix it well, check hydrometer make sure is in range, then i dont know what to do

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by dave00gt

Hi , im new to these forums, and i see everybody is helpful here and nice, well i am now doig my first saltwater aquarium in a 50 gallon tank. I have questions??

Hi dave00gt,

i have water there already set up with rocks (as in little rocks) from previous tropical fish, its still filtrating with and undergravel filtering kit.

Questions .

First this is first here. I think you should make your next investment a good beginners book to help guide you. I will suggest Robert Fenners Contientious Marine Aquarist which can be found in many places online:
http://www.reefland.com/bookstore.php

1. Should i dump the water out, and start with new water ?

Definitely but when you do this, you should remove the under gravel filter at the same time....this thing is useless in saltwater and will cause you a lot of trouble.

2. Do saltwater fish need live plants? My fish are going to consist of orange clown fish, yellow tang .. but the little try out fish will be a simple cheap fish..but mainly the clown fish and yellow tanh after everything is good to go.

No they do no 'need' live plants but they do have fundamental requirements. You can meet these fundamental requirements by using some fundamental methodologies.

3. Do i really need a PH kit? i see one here at my local pet store for 30 bucks .. but hey if i need it i need it.

That is steep, look through our Sponsors page for some much better prices. But yes, you need to check pH in addition to temperature, salinity, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for starters.

4. what should i measure , and at what time intervals.

See above for what. For when, it depends. Temp, pH and salinity should be checked daily until your comfortable with the stability. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate will be tested for very frequently in the beginning and less often as teh tank cycles and matures.

5. how soon could i put the lil testing saltwater guy in there with my instant ocean sea salt.

Not until your tank has complete the nitrogen cycle.

Ok guys this is what i know, and what i currently have for my little saltwater aquarium.
1. Protein skimmer good for 70gallons
2. 50 gallon fish tank
3. Hydrometer--cost me like 8 bucks,
4. Undergravel filtering kit with powerheads
5. gravel rocks
6. Instant ocean sea salt

Ditch the UG filter and go with good quality liverock instead.

as far as i know ..

first dechorinate the water, then mix instant ocean, mix it well, check hydrometer make sure is in range, then i dont know what to do

The water does not need to be dechlorinated. Simply make the water (preferably filtered or distilled water) add the appropriate amount of salt and use a powerhead to let it mix for at least 24 hours. Test often to make sure the pH, temp and salinity are correct before adding to the tank.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Hi dave00gt,



First this is first here. I think you should make your next investment a good beginners book to help guide you. I will suggest Robert Fenners Contientious Marine Aquarist which can be found in many places online:
http://www.reefland.com/bookstore.php


(( remove the filtering kit.. ok i will. wow never ever would have expected that to happen , but i am for anything to be on my way to becoming a Pro at this))


No they do no 'need' live plants but they do have fundamental requirements. You can meet these fundamental requirements by using some fundamental methodologies.

(( ok you got me on this one, like what ))


That is steep, look through our Sponsors page for some much better prices. But yes, you need to check pH in addition to temperature, salinity, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for starters.

((Ok, i will buy one from this website... for starters huh! so there will be a time when i wont use it or what ))
[qoute]4. what should i measure , and at what time intervals.

See above for what. For when, it depends. Temp, pH and salinity should be checked daily until your comfortable with the stability. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate will be tested for very frequently in the beginning and less often as teh tank cycles and matures.

(( got it!.. daily untill it cycles and matures))


Not until your tank has complete the nitrogen cycle.

ok, got that too.. how long does that take 1 week? 2 weeks? maybe 3.


Ditch the UG filter and go with good quality liverock instead.

what will the liverock do for the fishes, and how much should i get, and where do i get it from?


ok let me get this straight...mix appropriate amount of salt with filtered water, then let it mix with my power head for 24 hrs, then check with my hydrometer and testing kit if things are right ..then what? is that the end nitro cycle.

what should my standards be on salinity, alkalinity , ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate be?


wow, thanks

[Reefland]

The nitrogen cycle length will depend on how long it takes the bacteria colonies to develop to perform the conversions. If you were to buy true 'fully cured' liverock it is possible that there would never be a cycle. However most buy advertised 'cured' liverock which will still experience die-off in transit and require time to cycle. The cycle could last from 0 days to 5 weeks depending on your methods. You will know it is completed when there is no detectable ammonia and no detectable nitrite in the aquarium.

Liverock is the main form of biological filtration for marine aquariums. Whether you are doing a reef tank of only fish I recommend that use of liverock, heavy protein skimming and aggressive water changes for all your filtration needs. Liverock can be purchased from many of our online sponsors and even after you include shipping costs, is typically much cheaper than buying from a local supplier.

Standards on your:
Salinity - 35-36ppt or 1.025 - 1.026 with your hydrometer.
pH - 8.0-8.3 although slightly lower is ok too.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - As low as possible. For a FO tank you can get away with 30-40ppm but for any inverts you want it lower than that.
Alkalinity - Don't even worry about this right now.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by Reefland

The nitrogen cycle length will depend on how long it takes the bacteria colonies to develop to perform the conversions. If you were to buy true 'fully cured' liverock it is possible that there would never be a cycle. However most buy advertised 'cured' liverock which will still experience die-off in transit and require time to cycle. The cycle could last from 0 days to 5 weeks depending on your methods. You will know it is completed when there is no detectable ammonia and no detectable nitrite in the aquarium.

Liverock is the main form of biological filtration for marine aquariums. Whether you are doing a reef tank of only fish I recommend that use of liverock, heavy protein skimming and aggressive water changes for all your filtration needs. Liverock can be purchased from many of our online sponsors and even after you include shipping costs, is typically much cheaper than buying from a local supplier.

Standards on your:
Salinity - 35-36ppt or 1.025 - 1.026 with your hydrometer.
pH - 8.0-8.3 although slightly lower is ok too.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - As low as possible. For a FO tank you can get away with 30-40ppm but for any inverts you want it lower than that.
Alkalinity - Don't even worry about this right now.

i really like the standards you gave me, that will be very helpfull in the future and im going to buy live rock, and a full kit for testing the water.

i will look into the live rock section, and see what i can find.

ok, im slow, and new to this so here it goes

1.mix filtered water with apropriate amount of sea salt
2. mix it with power head for 24 hrs and install Protein Skimmer
3. after 24 hrs check for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate traces with testing kit oh! and a hydrometer .
4.after everything is in place could i add at least live rock, and a tester guy.

[Reefland]

You should mix your saltwater for at least 24 hours and then test for temp, pH and salinity; make any necessary adjustments. Once these three things are where they need to be (temp should be at 80) you can add all of your liverock (probably about 30-40lbs would be nice in a 50-gallon FO tank). 24 hours after adding the liverock, ensuring that the salinity, pH and temp stays steady start checking ammonia and nitrite. You should see the ammonia rise and start to fall over a couple of days. When the ammonia starts to fall you will see the nitrite rise and start to fall. Once Ammonia and Nitrite are at 0 and Nitrates are <50ppm then you are ready to add a very hardy, first fish.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by Reefland

You should mix your saltwater for at least 24 hours and then test for temp, pH and salinity; make any necessary adjustments. Once these three things are where they need to be (temp should be at 80) you can add all of your liverock (probably about 30-40lbs would be nice in a 50-gallon FO tank). 24 hours after adding the liverock, ensuring that the salinity, pH and temp stays steady start checking ammonia and nitrite. You should see the ammonia rise and start to fall over a couple of days. When the ammonia starts to fall you will see the nitrite rise and start to fall. Once Ammonia and Nitrite are at 0 and Nitrates are <50ppm then you are ready to add a very hardy, first fish.

ok..temperature should stay a constant 80 .. when the ammonia rises do i do anything or leave it alone. will high amonia affect live rock

oh yes ! one more question.. do i really need live sand?

or will the regular rock gravel work..?

my local fish store , sells sand and a liquid to introduce bacteria and such to the sand, is that a good product if we do the sand like that.??

thanks

[brooke]

You don't want to use rock gravel, that will cause you more problems with nitrates than anything. Just regular old sugar sized sand would work, just make sure it's not silica based.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by brooke

You don't want to use rock gravel, that will cause you more problems with nitrates than anything. Just regular old sugar sized sand would work, just make sure it's not silica based.

well thats messed up because a guy at my LFS has a saltwater fish with rock gravel, and he said it was fine to use rock gravel.


what if i use rock gravel with live rock and crushed corral?

[Poseidon]

Then you would be following a different path from what has been described above. Myself I use a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) of sugar sized sand. NO UNDERGRAVEL filters... The rock will filter the water, and the skimmer will help remove waste. Just remember to KISS! (Keep It Simple Silly)

[cichlidfort]

Can't he just use crushed coral?

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by cichlidfort

Can't he just use crushed coral?

Crushed coral can also be problematic if not siphoned regularly. The problem with this is that siphon is destructive to any bacteria colonies and other infauna in the bed so you causing a lot of maintenance for no benefit.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Then you would be following a different path from what has been described above. Myself I use a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) of sugar sized sand. NO UNDERGRAVEL filters... The rock will filter the water, and the skimmer will help remove waste. Just remember to KISS! (Keep It Simple Silly)

I will try the rock gravel thing with crused corral, if it doesnt work i am definately going with sand for sure. The undergravel filters i gets lots of NOs from people , because they say it isnt nessesary which it is true, it is not, but i have them there with 2 power heads that flow 170 gallons per hr each power head and airate the water pretty damn good, i will be buying plenty of live rock, at least 40lbs or live rock, for my tank.

right now my tank is cloudy and it probably wont clear up till in 24 hrs, is this correct?

[Reefland]

You do not want to do the rock gravel, bottom line. Take it out along with the undergravel filter now before you get any liverock or anything else. Having these things in place are counter-productive to your success; seriously. You should keep the powerheads in the tank but to just circulate water.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by Reefland

You do not want to do the rock gravel, bottom line. Take it out along with the undergravel filter now before you get any liverock or anything else. Having these things in place are counter-productive to your success; seriously. You should keep the powerheads in the tank but to just circulate water.

crushed corral too.?

[Reefland]

I wouldn't, personally I would go without any substrate or use a deep bed of fine sand. Those are the only two methods I would consider.

[dave00gt]

Originally Posted by Reefland

I wouldn't, personally I would go without any substrate or use a deep bed of fine sand. Those are the only two methods I would consider.

dang!.. if my setup dies, i will be used as an example gravel rock and crushed corral is a no no .. i already mixed everything , sea salt and everything i am in the beggining of the cycle..

cmon, give me some hope, im gonna buy 30 lbs more of live rock by this week...is should help me filter things.

[Reefland]

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of hope using those methods. The problem will be in the form of Nitrate and it may not rear it's ugly face for a couple of months but when it does there will be no way to combat it with your current methods. If I were you I would mark up my losses and go ahead and remove the substrate you currently have and the UGF before you get your next batch of liverock, which will make it harder.

[dave00gt]

if i do remove the susbtrate , do i have to buy more sea salt..

and about the live sand, the LFS said i would buy a chemical they have and dump it with the sand, and that converts it into live sand, can i do that?

[Reefland]

You will only need to get more salt to replace what is going to be removed. When you remove the substrate and filter you are obviously going to loose some water and have some additional space to fill so yes, you will need more salt water.

On the sand, no there is nothing that you have buy other than true livesand and livesand life that will make the sand live. Whatever it is that they are selling you is not needed and a waste of mulah.