New to saltwater, need help deciding tank size

[Wing]

Hi, this is my first post and look forward to the helpful suggestions here.

I really want to startup a saltwater tank. I have no experience in a saltwater tank, but have had a few years under mybelt for freshwater. (Doing alot of reading now on salt water stuff)

I'm having problems deciding what tank size. ideally, i would want at least 5 fish. I originally wanted a 20gallon tank, but i don't think a 20g tank will hold 5 fishes + live rocks. I'm looking for a system that is relatively quiet since this will be in my bedroom. I kinda want a 55gallon setup, but i can't seem to find a used setup locally (seattle). i saw a 20gallon setup that comes with everything on ebay for 250 bucks. but just seems too small for what i want to do in the future.

I would like to be able to grow in the future if i need to. I guess really i want some support

Thanks
Wing

[brooke]

First off, WELCOME TO REEFLAND!!

IMO, the bigger the better. Especially if this will be your first tank. The more water volume, the easier it is to maintain. A 55gal will be more forgiving than a 20gal.

Be careful buying used tanks, especially if is was used prior for freshwater fish, due to copper based medications. If a tank was ever dosed with copper, then it's not suitable for a reef tank.

As far as the number of fish, it really depends on what type of fish you want to keep, and their adult size. You might be able to get away with 3-4 fish in a 20gal if they are tiny, even that may be to many. It all depends on how much live rock you use and your filtration.

[Wing]

i got couple replies from some ads i found. and i need your suggestion. here is one

my set up is 1 year old include:
30 gal with wood stand ($150)
20 lbs live rock ($120)
25 lb crushed coral ($30)
fluval 304 filter ($110)
200 watt germany heater ($30)
complete test kit ($30)
PH meter ($10)
1 tomato clown ($15)
2 damsel ($8)
and many more like salt, seaweed, foods and ... that I will throw in for you
everything cost over $500 without tax and the tank is cycle already, so you can add more fish in.

Thanks for asking

here's a picture that they sent me.
http://turborocco.com/saltwatertank.jpg

they wanted $200 for this setup

[Wing]

here's the other setup

Full Ad Text:
55 gal saltwater aquarium with built in bio filter(very low maintenence tank) and fish. I had all of these four medium sized fish for well over a year and they have been happy and hardy and easy to care for. I have a dog face puffer, a quckly growing snowflake moray eel, a blue spot grouper, and a very nice red tooth trigger. I don’t want to sell this tank because I have a lot invested in it and love my fish but i have to take care of different priorities in my life right now and that means moving back home where this size tank and time commitment would not be practical. I will take the time to explain in detail how this tank works and some of the little tricks I have picked up if you are new to this because I want my fish to stay healthy not just be some fad for someone to give up after a month because they were not educted enough for the responsibility of a saltwater tank. I will be able to set up a time to be on scene to help take down take and help load.

he wanted 250 for this setup, but i don't know if he has a stand and what equipment he has

[brooke]

The first one sounds like a good deal, with the exception that there is no protein skimmer listed. You will definately need a good skimmer. And the canister filter is probably not a good filter for reef setup. If you would get this setup, I'd add about 20-25lbs of live rock, get a good skimmer, and ditch the cansiter filter. Adding a sump would also be helpful. I also didn't see any lighting listed. If you're going to do fish only, then standard fluorescent lights will be fine. If you're planning on adding corals, then you'll have to invest in better lighting.

The second tank seems overstocked for a 55gal. All of these fish get very large, are messy eaters, and are aggressive. They would eat corals, crabs, and snails. They would be the only thing you would be able to have in the tank. And as I said, I think the tank is overstocked. I wonder what type of filtration he uses and if there is any live rock. You would need to get a lot more info from the second person.

Research, research, research

[Wing]

but equipment wise and size of tank. would the 2nd be better? since there's 25more gallons? I guess that would depend on what filtration he has.

well. i don't neccessarily want to keep those fish. My original plan was to make a really nice colorful community tank. They don't have to be large. I would prefer more smaller fish. maybe one alittle bigger.

I was basically looking for equipment. it just so happens these setups come with fish.

I would pick up one or the other. or both? if i can make a deal out of the first one.

i would pick up whatever neccessary equipment for either setups. but has to be within reason cost wise.

Thanks alot!
Wing

[brooke]

It's all really a matter of personal opinion. The 55gal would probably be easier for a beginner. You can also add a sump to the 55gal to further increase volume.

As far as the fish, you could probably trade them in for store credit towards fish that you would rather have, or supplies at your local fish store (LFS).

Good luck!

[CSeaSee]

Welcome to Reefland!
If you're the patient type, hovering over some auctions on eBay will save you a lot of cash, and you can get some pretty good deals on equipment. Good Luck!

[Wing]

would a 30gallon tank hold 5-8 small to medium sized fish? Assuming i add the appropriate live rocks. Eventually i would like to do corals and add the appropriate lighting for it. What does a sump do in terms for aquariums?

[brooke]

It depends on what fish you want, but I'd say that would probably be way to many fish for a 30 gal. Maybe 3-4 small fish max. I'm conservative here though, maybe someone else could chime in on this. ;;

A sump serves many purposes. It adds volume to your tank. It serves as a place to put unsightly equipment, skimmer, heater, etc. It can also serve as a refugium for nutrient export. You can also add additional live rock to the sump.

[Wing]

i just got a response from the second setup

Hi Wing,
Yea I do have a picture which I am going to attach. It is not the best pic but it should give you an idea of what size the tank is. Basically the way the tank works is it by pumping water in a circular motion. The tank has a built in compartment inside the back of the tank the is used to hold filter material. It provides a large amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on which digest the waste material of the fish and other animals in the tank. So at the far right side there is a row of holes that the water is pumped through. the tank is seeled at the top all the way to the left of it except for a hole that allows the pumped water to flow back through and the process starts all over again. So with the tank there is the pump, a heater, the rocks and gravel, the four fish, and the light fixture and the light. It is pretty easy to take care of once you know the basics and know how to mix the salt and stuff. I have really enjoyed this tank and would have wanted to keep it but my dad doesn't want it at my house. So my old neighboors are keeping it utill it sells. I used to live by the tacoma mall and that is where the tank is now. I would like to keep it going but am not going to burden them much more. So if i have to i am just going to take it apart and sell the fish separately. If you are curious as to whether this is a good deal do some looking around at pet stores and see if you can find a tank alone that size not to mention the fish and the accesories you are looking at least twice that much easily. I will probably give you a call to to repeat all of this and answer any more of your questions.

Http://Turborocco.com/2ndsaltwater.jpg

Thats what he sent me. which setup do you think is a better deal. or what list of questions i should be asking him?

I really really appreciate everybodies help with this. Thank you soo much for your information.

[Reefland]

Hi Wing,

I wouldn't bother with either of these personally. I think the first step would be for you to determine which fish you would like to keep and then work on the necessary equipment for them. This is a much better way to go then getting a bunch of equipment not knowing if itwill be what you want. As a suggestion, find some fish that interest you (looking through our picture gallery would be a good start) and then post those so we can guide you to the right set-up.

[Wing]

Thanks reefland, the first person with the setup didn't get back to me and i didn't really like the 2nd setup that much. I took your advice and browsed through the gallery. I made a list. it's a long list, and i guess i'm looking for a tank where they can get along. I know some of these fish are probably too difficult for a beginner, but that's why i'm here to find out what's good and bad. Regardless I'm pretty sure i'm gonna aim for a 55gal tank. I know it'll be overcrowded with all that fish in there, i'm not expecting to put that many in there. just a list of what i thought are very pretty fish.

Hippo tang (any tangs)
damsels
clown's
sea dragon
purple pseudo's
gramma loreto
hawkfish
flame angel
nasso literatus
chromis
gobies

eventually I would like to put corals and anemones in the tank (i know there will be major light upgrades for it, I think i have some 175watt metal halide setups floating around the house)

Thanks!

[Reefland]

Yes, obviously these fish couldn't get along well in a 55, some of them not in captivity at all. The Sea Dragon is out, although they are really cool. Damsels are usually frowned upon simply due to their aggressive behavior.

What I would suggest is that you consider a 75 gallon tank as a start. The length is the same as the 55, width is 6" more and it really makes a big difference. Equipment costs shouldn't change at all except for the cost of the tank.

[Wing]

I found a 95gallon tank with stand for 200 bucks, I might pick this up. It looks acrylic. Only concern i have is, how heavy is 95gallons of water? this tank is going to be on the 2nd level in my bedroom. i don't want the room to collapse.

he said the pump is 220v, so i would have to replace the pump.

Http://turborocco.com/95galtank.jpg
Http://turborocco.com/95galtank1.jpg
Http://turborocco.com/95galtank2.jpg

[Reefland]

I would guess the weight to be 1000lbs before rock.

[Wing]

i swear people on craigslist are flakes... heh. i found a 75 gallon tank with wood canopy and stand. comes with some canister filter that i'll probably just sell. I also found a guy selling a ETSS evolution 500 skimmer. Going to see what other stuff he has, I want to get the ball rolling.

[Reefland]

Ever thought about buying new and having some peace of mind that nothing "bad" was ever used in the tank?

[Wing]

yeah, i've thought about it, but i can't afford the price of a new tank with stand/canopy. "bad" meaning what?

[Wing]

alright, i picked up a 75 gallon tank stand and canopy today. came with a proquatics canister filter and some heaters.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/for/106901866.html

i was looking at this setup on ebay..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7720818694

is it a waste of money?

what should i do in the mean time. place the substrate and fill it up with pre mixed water? what kind of tap water filter should i use to clean the water?

Thanks.