[foresteronw]

First off I would like to say hi.

Second off, it seems like you have a really nice forum here with tons of good info and lots of people willing ot help.

Before I start here is what I have so far for a set-up.

125 Gallon Tank
1 Emporer 400 filter
1 Penguin 350B filter
2 200 watt 15" heaters
2 light hoods with basic flor. lights

Now that the basics are out of the way here come the questions.

1. I have 100lbs of Southdown sand that I plan on mixing with 40lbs of crushed coral. Is this a bad idea and how do I go about rinsing sand?

2. When I mix the water with salt do I have to filter it first? I plan on running the water for a couple of days with the filters before adding and damsels but I just want to make sure that I don't have to filter it before I start.

3. How many damsels should I add to get my cycle going?

I plan on adding live rock as I go along but not right off the bat, don't want to break the bank right before Christmas and all.

That should do it for now, but I'm sure there will be more to add later.

[sere]

Foresteronw,
Welcome.
Hmm where to start.
1. I would not mix the crushed coral with the southdown. Not really a "bad" idea but...I have found that the crushed coral gets algea on it and really starts to look bad. If you want to rinse your sand just put in a plastic garbage can and stick a hose in it for a few hours stiring occasionally
2. As far as filtering your water? Kinda depends on how bad your tap water is. If you have chlorine in your water I would suggest letting it aerate in a plastic garbage can for 24 hours. Otherwise it would not hurt to run it in your tank and filter it with lots of surface agitation. I really do not like mixing water and salt in the tank as it is harder to measure the specific gravity.
3. 3-4 damsels would be fine. Personally I would not get damsels. Many a reefer have regretted putting these guys in their tank as they can become very aggressive and territorial. If you want fish in from the start use green chromis instead. I would just start off with live rock myself.

I really like the 120 gal size tank, should be fun. One note with your filters. I think you may find you will not want those types of filter especially with the bio-wheel. They can be good for having a place to put carbon though. With a fish only tank the two most important parts of the system is quality "cured" and/or "cooked" live rock and a very good protien skimmer. Do not put uncured live rock in your tank! You will start to build up nitrates and Phosphate quickly. Do not skimp here or you will waste money on unhealthy fish and a tank full of algea. Best bang for the buck skimmer IMO would be the ASM g3 or G4. Look at www.asmskimmer.com Good water flow is a must also to keep the water oxygenated, ph stable, and detritus (gunk) suspended so it can be taken out by the filters.
These are just my opinions and each tank varies. Some people have nothing but liverock and sand and their tanks do great. I have found with my own experiences and research that good rock, water movement, and a good quality skimmer make a great foundation to a succesfull tank.
I personally have wasted a ton of money on poor/improper equipment that I just had to go out and rebuy and a bunch of dead, or sick fish due to an unhealthy tank
Good luck and don't rush
Jerod

[CSeaSee]

I personally wouldn't add any damsels. Just toss in a piece of shrimp.

[foresteronw]

As far as rinsing the sand I read last night that it is not a must especially since I am not going to add fish for several days after it's set-up, so scratch that question...lol.

As far as my tap water goes it is not the best, and does have chlorine (city water). My plan was to let the tank run for about three days through the filters to hopefully get it all worked out of there but I didn't know if that would solve the problem or not.

So you recommend mixing the water in what a 5 gallon bucket or something else then adding it in? Just curious but why not add the water then the salt then measure it in the tank?

The only reason I wanted to add the damsels was to begin the tank's cycle. After the cycle was over I was going to bring them back to the pet store for a credit...if any. As far as starting off with live rock, it's really not in my budget right now, but if I wanted to go that route how much would I need to add to my tank to get it running safe and able to start adding fish?

What is the reason not to run those filters, with the bio wheel?

From what the pet store told me to do and what you have said I feel completely lost now. They told me to set it up with sand or crushed coral, a power filter on the back of the tank with enough GPH to support my tank and proper heat (plus a few little things).

[foresteronw]

Originally Posted by CSeaSee

I personally wouldn't add any damsels. Just toss in a piece of shrimp.

if I toss in a piece of shrimp, and have no live rock how long does it take to cycle or is this method only used with live rock?

[sere]

Sounds like the exact story I got when I started 12 years ago. I went to petco and spent $1,000. I scrapped every peice of equipment except one power head with in one year.
I am sorry but your pet store has mis-led you. Maybe not intentionally. Like I said many tanks run ok with those kinds of filters but your chances of success long term are substantially less. Most people find that biowheels while effective at breaking down ammonia and cultering bacteria usually lead to high nitrates. Nitrates and phosphes lead to a constant battle with algea. Keeping phosphates and nitrates down will be difficult enough without adding to the problem with biowheels. I would keep those filters but do not run the biowheels.
As far as mixing your water. Go buy one or two 32 gallon plastic garbage cans.You will thank yourself later on when it comes to changing water. For the initial fill go ahead and fill your tank with water, add salt, circulate and measure. Do not add the southdown yet. You need to see if some of the salt is unmixed on the bottom of your tank.
Just a friendly peice of advice. If you do not have very much money right now to buy a skimmer and live rock DO NOT try and run your tank with much else than chromis. When you get money add rock piece by piece. BUY a good skimmer as soon as you can. Do some research and do not buy junk.
Don't mean to be disheartening but just trying to help you avoid all the problems many of us have had when we first started out!
jerod

[sere]

Also I understand the reason in buying damsels but chromis will do the same thing and you can keep them afterwords. Just saving a little hassle!

[foresteronw]

Originally Posted by sere

Also I understand the reason in buying damsels but chromis will do the same thing and you can keep them afterwords. Just saving a little hassle!

Jerod,

I appreciate all your help so far.

So if the bio wheels help break down ammonia and help with the bacteria would it at all be beneficial to start the tank with them on for a short period of time then remove them or is that way out there?

Here is my plan, let me know what you think....

Add the water and salt and get the level correct. Once the salt is added and I'm sure it is properly mixed I will add the sand. During this time I'll be using the filters I have now to circulate the tank and I will also be ordering a couple of power heads to increase the flow quite a bit. Since it will be a little while until I can get enough live rock I'm going to add a couple of the chromis. As I build enough rock over a couple of weeks I will add a protein skimmer to the tank. I would guess over the course of four two six weeks I will have some live rock (I'm not sure how much I will need to be sufficient for the size tank I have though) and a protein skimmer.

If there is anything that I am way in left field about please let me know.

[sere]

Sounds like a solid plan! Try and get atleast a few small pieces of live rock when you start. 2-3 2lb pieces. The chromis will like it for sleeping and hiding. The amount of rock is a matter of taste somewhat. 50-100 lbs would be ok. Or more depending on your taste. Depending on what live rock costs in your area that is a good chunk of change. You may want to consider getting about 25lbs of live rock and 50 lbs of dry base rock. Check out www.hirocks.com. A 60lb box will cost you $92 including shipping. That is at least a $200 dollar savings! Dry or base rock will become "live" rock in a few months when mixed with your real live rock. Remember get fully cured live rock. Don't buy the stuff fresh from the shipment to the local store. You want it cured for at least 3-4 weeks.
The chromis would be fine in your tank. It will take a minimum of 4 weeks for your tank to settle in or cycle. I would personally not add more fish until you can get your skimmer and an adequate amount of live rock. As far as the bio wheels having them in for a while is fine. Either remove them later or ensure you clean them weekly. Really once your tank is cycled and you have your live rock inplace you will not need them at all.
I hope I have covered it all for ya. let me know if I was not clear on anything.
Jerod

[Poseidon]

I would skip the wheels completely. If you use them in the beginning the bacteria will surely colonize on them, then when you remove them you no longer have enough bacteria to remove the NH3. Remember the tank is in a constant balancing act, fish waste vs available bacteria to process it. When you remove bacteria, or ADD another source of NH3, you will cause a spike. The older the tank is, the better able to handle the spikes it will be. A new tank is not stable enough to make drastic changes in filtration capacity without causing some other problems, especially if there is not a lot of Rock in there.