[smokylemonpeel]

Hi,
I've had a 20G SW FOWLR tank for 2yrs now, I've managed to keep the eco system balanced as I've never had a fish die on me...but I just purchased a 70G tank and don't know how to set it up.
I don't know if I want a reef or fowlr...how much LR determines a reef tank anyways? ..and what kind of filtration is the best for either one?
I have a Fluval 304 canister on my 20G and my 70G came with an Eheim canister and a diatom filter and other accessories as well... is a skimmer recommended? ..what about a wet/dry filter?
Which substrate is best..sand? or aragonite? (I don't want crushed coral)
I know I'd like some hearty corals and some LR...
can anyone suggest some ideas?
thanks

[The R/C Man]

First, Welcome to Reefland!!!!

If you decide to go fish only, I suggest live rock and a GOOD protein skimmer as your filtration. The live rock acts as the bological filtration and the skimmer will remove disolved organics. Those two things along with regular water changes will do the trick. Definitly use aragonite. Smaller is better and don't waste your money on the so called "live sand" because it is not live.

How much live rock? I would use about 1lb per gallon.

As for a reef. You can turn that into a reef in the future by adding the apropriate lighting and corals.

Additional filtration: I am a big fan of refugiums on a saltwater tank reef or FO. They aid in nitrate reduction and can be added to the sytem at anytime. However, setting up the tank with it in the plans can save some headaches....

Hope that helps...

[smokylemonpeel]

"If you decide to go fish only, I suggest live rock and a GOOD protein skimmer as your filtration".

So, no canister or other mechanical filtration? just LR and a skimmer on a big tank?

"How much live rock? I would use about 1lb per gallon"
I love the reef tanks at LFS but I also like to see fish swim and find that
if you have a reef, they tend to hide more than swim, so I'd like to add LR but not to the extreme.

"As for a reef. You can turn that into a reef in the future by adding the apropriate lighting and corals." So its not the LR that determines a reef tank its actually the lighting with the corals?

"Additional filtration: I am a big fan of refugiums on a saltwater tank reef or FO. They aid in nitrate reduction and can be added to the sytem at anytime"
I don't think I want to add a refugium, but I agree that the goal is to keep the nitrates low, is there any other approach? or type of filtration configuration? I also like to keep everything tucked away(underneath)
What about a sump with a skimmer? I really don't know much about filtration types...should I ditch the Eheim?


Thanks for your help

[smokylemonpeel]

I guess I don't really understand the difference between the following
1- Wet/dry filter
2- Refugium
3- sump

can you please clarify..
Oh, and thanks for the welcome!

[The R/C Man]

Wet/dry filters allow water to cascade over some media that is out of the water. This allows bacteria to grow on the media and to assist with filtration. I am not a big fan of this type as it will compete with the live rock.

A refugium is a refuge for plants and copepods to grow outside of the display tank. Than can be hang on the back or located under the tank as part of a sump. A refugium can also help maintain your PH balance when lighted opposite the display tank. It also helps to keep the tank well oxygenated as the plants produce oxygen when the display tank (moslty reef) isn't.

A sump is just a large container usually another tank located under the display tank. It adds more water volume to the system making it more stable. It allows a place to hide equipment such as skimmers, heaters etc. It also can be used to incorporate a refugium.

I hope that helped. I am a fan of using a sump with a refugium incorporated into it. I have had great results with my little tank and I am putting the 375 together in the same way..... If you are interest check out my web site for pics of the little tank and here is a link to my large tank in progress. TOTW 05-17-05 375 Gallon Tank and Sump Plans

[smokylemonpeel]

Hey Greg,
Nice tank idea good luck with it, can't wait to see the end result.
I'm thinking LR with a sump/skimmer (at least for the moment) but I will consider the fuge ...I need to see more designs ideas, what size should my sump be? is there a link to this info somewhere?
thanks for the help.

[The R/C Man]

Ideally the sump should be as big as you can fit under your tank and leave room for a skimmer unless the skimmer resides in the sump. Keep the designing simple. As you could tell from my sump, a couple baffles to eliminate bubbles, then the fuge, a few more baffles to keep buubles from entering the display tank and then a return pump. What ever you do KEEP IT SIMPLE. Less plumbing = less chance of a leak etc. If you saw my web site sump under my 25 gallon tank is just a partitioned 10 gallon tank with a hang on skimmer and internal return pump..... Check out the DIY section for some more ideas....

[smokylemonpeel]

Hi Greg,
Ok I will design a sump (to start with), are there any rules for the baffles? it goes over-under-over...then over again or under? My display tank is also tempered glass and I'm aprehensive about getting it pierced for those bulkheads...incase I decide to sell it next yr. and get a bigger one so, I was thinking what if I used a canister filter(without media) to draw water from the display tank into the sump and then used a return pump back to the display? would that be ok? should I be matching the return pump(gph) to my canister? also what kind of skimmer should I get? is there any media to be added to the sump?

[The R/C Man]

I am on my way out the door so real quick.... U can use an overflow box to get the water from the display to the sump... Gravity/siphon... CPR makes some.... anyway I will elaborate more when I get home.... Later...

[chugga]

Smokeylemonpeel, not meaning to hijack your thread or anything, but I'll be anxiously awaiting some answers on this as well. I'm a newbie to s/w, and setting ap a 40g tank at the moment. I was wondering about filtration as well, and was planning on asking the exact same questions as you have. I have a spare 10 gal I could use, but was just wondering if you can hook up an overflow box without drilling the tank? Or maybe use a cannister filter with media removed? Looking forward to answers....

[The R/C Man]

Hey guys!

Still in hurry... lol I have been really busy...Sorry... Anyway U do not need to drill the tank. There is a siphon that draws the water from inside the tank. Here is a link: http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...de=CPROverflow

[smokylemonpeel]

No problem chugga,
Greg,
I see the principle behing the overflow, but my display tank will be viewable from both sides and will only use the narrow edge against the wall..sort of using it as a room devider...so since I have some goodies collecting dust
1-an eheim canister(300gph) and 2- a vortex diatom filter that can be used as a pump(400gph) I was thinking of only having 2 tubes(intake & return) against that narrow edge with some powerheads + I don't have to dish out more money and can get the skimmer for the sump instead. Also another positive point about it is that if there is a power outage both pumps would immediately stop and wouldn't have to worry about overflowing the sump. I don't think using a medialess canister would have any effect on the water ph as it would only be passing into the pump and into the sump...granted I'll be using 3pumps instead of only 2.
I think its feasible but I'd rather ask before...

[Fish R.Ph.]

Originally Posted by smokylemonpeel

.....I was thinking what if I used a canister filter(without media) to draw water from the display tank into the sump and then used a return pump back to the display? would that be ok? should I be matching the return pump(gph) to my canister? also what kind of skimmer should I get? is there any media to be added to the sump?

Not sure if I'm understanding this, but if you are suggesting trying to match the flow from the outflow (canister) and inflow pumps you could be looking for trouble . Don't know if others have successfuly done this, but would seem difficult if not impossible. Alot of folks run very reliable overflows without overflowing their sumps. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your situation.

Best wishes on your project!

-Jason

[smokylemonpeel]

Originally Posted by Fish R.Ph.

Not sure if I'm understanding this, but if you are suggesting trying to match the flow from the outflow (canister) and inflow pumps you could be looking for trouble . Don't know if others have successfuly done this, but would seem difficult if not impossible. Alot of folks run very reliable overflows without overflowing their sumps. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your situation.
Best wishes on your project!
-Jason

My tank will be deviding a room, making it viewable on both sides, therefore I would prefer not to have any piping or anything hanging anywhere.
I'm not disputing the fact that alot of people run very reliable overflows here, I'm sure your return pump doesn't match your overflow 100% of the time.. e.x. if an overflow "CPR CS90 rated at 600gph" is in place don't you have to add a suitable return pump so that your sump doesn't overfill?
So, if my pump draws 400gph (instead of siphons it)... I just need get a suitable return pump to be able to handle the flow in the sump...I don't see why this is impossible? Do you?

[Reefland]

Yes, this is totally impossible. You will never be able to get a pump drawing water from the tank to match a pump returning water to the tank, it is impossible to get set and even more unrealistic to keep them balanced.

An overflow that handles 600gph will handle 500gph 0r 600gph, dpending on what the pump is returning to the tank. It does not draw water at it's own rate but automatically matches the rate of the return pump. In order to run a sump on your tank you will have to have an overflow of some sort whether the tank gets drilled or an external box is used.

[chugga]

Smokey, I was thinking along the same lines as you at first, but I think the point here is that the sump will never overflow because the overflow box only overflows when the pump is running, ie If the power went out and the pump in the sump stopped, no water would be sent up to the main tank and the flow through the overflow box would stop. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never seen an overflow box, but I'm under the impression that the overflow box only flows when the main tank is 100% full and the pump downstairs is still running - is this correct?

[Fish R.Ph.]

Originally Posted by chugga

Smokey, I was thinking along the same lines as you at first, but I think the point here is that the sump will never overflow because the overflow box only overflows when the pump is running, ie If the power went out and the pump in the sump stopped, no water would be sent up to the main tank and the flow through the overflow box would stop. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never seen an overflow box, but I'm under the impression that the overflow box only flows when the main tank is 100% full and the pump downstairs is still running - is this correct?

Bingo! Sounds like you've got the concept.

Your possibility of overflowing the sump in a power outtage could still exist when the water which will naturally drain back into the sump (when the pump stops) creates a siphon, sucking water from the display back into the sump. To prevent this be sure you don't run your sump on full (i.e. leave room for some drainage back into the sump) and also drilling an anti-siphon hole in the return plumbing just below the water level in the display will break the siphon.

Best wishes!

-Jason