[foresteronw]

This might not be a bright quesiton but the reason I'm asking is because of something I was told I could do.


I went to the pet store the other day and was checking out live rock. The lady there said that if I wanted to save money I could always go and get my own from the ocean. I live on the coast of North Carolina and there are tons of places to get the rock from, right on shore not having to go diving, but I would think that if it was this easy more people would do it. I was also wondering about pollutants being close to shore from boats and whatever else. Anyway, she also told me that I could get some of the rock let it sit out for a week or so to dry then culture it in my own water (in a seperate tank of course) at a later date once my tank has cycled. So what's the deal, it can't be that easy.

[CSeaSee]

Hmm... this could be an interesting discussion...
My first thought was, is that even legal? Being from Chicago, and not having any natural saltwater habitats for thousands of miles in any direction, I wouldn't have the first clue. You may want to check into that, before you go any farther. It'll at least tell you if you need to collect at noon or midnight!
Your question about pollution is certainly valid. Stuff can certainly get into rock, and then leach out later. This could include industrial runoff! Maybe someone with more coastal experience could chime in on that.
All sorts of critters come on live rock, and stuff freshly harvested from the ocean would probably have just a wee bit more than the stuff people buy in the stores. Aging it in the dark for a few weeks would certainly be a wise move. You'll want to worry about the (possible) round of undesirable hitch-hikers, including parasitic flatworms, mantis shrimp, predatory fireworms (but I don't think they live around N.C.- ???) and other fun stuff. I'm certainly not the expert on the ecology of the N.C. area, and I don't know what lives there off the top of my head. But I know someone out there is, and maybe they can add to my list of concerns.
If it all checks out, though, go for it! Heck, make the most out of it and sell the stuff! You could (theoretically) get the entire tank paid for! Remember, this could be a key rebuttal point for any future arguments with a significant other about the cost of your hobby. Good luck!

[foresteronw]

One more thing to add or ask.

If I am just starting my tank can I make my own live rock? As in if I get base rock, and I am willing to wait is there anyway to get the tank to cycle and the rock to become live or does it take previously live rock in order to make more live rock?

[foresteronw]

As far as it being legal or not I'm not sure how it is in public areas and I would want to find out for sure first. I know for a fact that one of the places I was told about, the military base, doesn't have any restrictions on that, at least that I'm aware of. My sister went there to get some rock for her yard and the life gaurds showed her several good spots to get a lot of rock.

So how would I know if the rock had the parasites that I dont want in it? Is there anyway to get rid of them? Is this something that is too risky and may not even be worth it?

[sere]

Foresteronw,
How is the tank cycling going? Getting rock from the ocean? Many unknowns, legal, polutants,hitchiker etc. I am in the military, you might want to be carefull about assuming just because the lifeguards said it was ok does not make it so. Usually Military bases follow all local and federal laws when it comes to its land. Also depending on what kind of base it is some military bases have high pollutants due to old fuel and poor ecological track record. Now Military bases are on the forefront on keeping the land clean but be carefull. Save yourself all the hassle and just 2 chunks of live rock and let it seed the base rock. It will seed overtime.
Good luck
Jerod

[foresteronw]

Originally Posted by sere

Foresteronw,
How is the tank cycling going? Getting rock from the ocean? Many unknowns, legal, polutants,hitchiker etc. I am in the military, you might want to be carefull about assuming just because the lifeguards said it was ok does not make it so. Usually Military bases follow all local and federal laws when it comes to its land. Also depending on what kind of base it is some military bases have high pollutants due to old fuel and poor ecological track record. Now Military bases are on the forefront on keeping the land clean but be carefull. Save yourself all the hassle and just 2 chunks of live rock and let it seed the base rock. It will seed overtime.
Good luck
Jerod

Yeah you know the more I thought about it after I posted this I started asking myself if it was even worth it just to save some money.

As far as the tank cycle goes I would say slow and steady if it's even started yet...lol. I've got the water in it, all the substrate, salt and that is about it. I have a protein skimmer on order that should be here this week and other than that I'm trying to figure out this live rock thing before I continue. I've been told that I need about 100lbs of rock and as little as 50lbs of rock to get the cycle started. So far that is the most frustrating part of this whole thing is that you get 700 different "opinions" on what is right and what is wrong. LOL...not easy at all.

So you're saying with just a couple of pieces I should be fine for a while?

[sere]

Hmm lots of variable there but... if you get uncured live rock then there will be die off to help start the cycle. (not reccomended) You were going to add some chromis also correct? Basically you need some sort of waste to get the cycle started. Live rock,dead shrimp, fish etc. I was thinking just a few pieces of live rock to seed base rock. This was on the assumption that you would have some type livestock in there to really start the cycle.
The chromis are almost as hardy as damsels so some should make it through the cycle.
If you want to buy 50-100lbs of live rock that is up to you but...
50-100lbs live rock = $250-$500 tank will cycle in 4-6 weeks
or
5 green chromis =~ $15 tank will cycle in 4-6 weeks
Same result more money.
Just make it simple on yourself. Throw chromis in and sit back and wait.
What kind of skimmer did you get?
Good luck you are on the right track
Jerod

[foresteronw]

Originally Posted by sere

Hmm lots of variable there but... if you get uncured live rock then there will be die off to help start the cycle. (not reccomended) You were going to add some chromis also correct? Basically you need some sort of waste to get the cycle started. Live rock,dead shrimp, fish etc. I was thinking just a few pieces of live rock to seed base rock. This was on the assumption that you would have some type livestock in there to really start the cycle.
The chromis are almost as hardy as damsels so some should make it through the cycle.
If you want to buy 50-100lbs of live rock that is up to you but...
50-100lbs live rock = $250-$500 tank will cycle in 4-6 weeks
or
5 green chromis =~ $15 tank will cycle in 4-6 weeks
Same result more money.
Just make it simple on yourself. Throw chromis in and sit back and wait.
What kind of skimmer did you get?
Good luck you are on the right track
Jerod

O.k., that sounds more like what I want to do, a couple of pieces of live rock, some base rock and a couple of chromis to get it going. Like I said before I'm not in a rush and don't mind waiting a couple of weeks.

I got a Coralife 125, it might not be the best skimmer out there but for a hang on the back I've read some pretty decent things about it and it's not going to make me rob a bank to get it.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by foresteronw

I went to the pet store the other day and was checking out live rock. The lady there said that if I wanted to save money I could always go and get my own from the ocean. I live on the coast of North Carolina and there are tons of places to get the rock from, right on shore not having to go diving, but I would think that if it was this easy more people would do it.

Wow! I don't know where to begin. I guess I'll begin by assuming that you are serious and not just trying to pull everybody's leg.

If the "lady at the pet store" really said that, then I will add that to my list of STUPID LFS TRICKS!

There is NO LIVE ROCK off the coast of North Carolina!

Live rock is not really "rock" in the sense that most people think of the word "rock." It's dead coral skeletons that have been eroded and infiltrated with beneficial microorganisms over time.

There are NO CORAL REEFS off the coast of North Carolina, therefore there is no live rock off the coast of North Carolina.



P.S. -- It used to be legal to collect live rock in Florida but they banned that several years ago, which is why they switched to aquacultured live rock.

[foresteronw]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Wow! I don't know where to begin. I guess I'll begin by assuming that you are serious and not just trying to pull everybody's leg.

If the "lady at the pet store" really said that, then I will add that to my list of STUPID LFS TRICKS!

There is NO LIVE ROCK off the coast of North Carolina!

Live rock is not really "rock" in the sense that most people think of the word "rock." It's dead coral skeletons that have been eroded and infiltrated with beneficial microorganisms over time.

There are NO CORAL REEFS off the coast of North Carolina, therefore there is no live rock off the coast of North Carolina.



P.S. -- It used to be legal to collect live rock in Florida but they banned that several years ago, which is why they switched to aquacultured live rock.

Yeah I'm serious, I wouldn't be asking if I new that answer and that is what she told me. It sounded fishy to me, and the way I looked at it was that it sounded to damn easy. Thanks for the help people.

[ksrinlv]

Actually collecting live rock in Florida is perfectly legal FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE. That is an important distinction, it is very illegal to sell Florida live rock. I have researched the Florida statutes personally about this, and there are only a couple corals that are illegal to collect for personal use, most else is fair game for personal use - NOT FOR SALE!

[foresteronw]

O.k., so I went back to the pet store and asked her about the live rock from the ocean and she explained it in a little more detail to me. Basically its' something from old oyster shelves, or something along those lines. It's not coral, but she said she has put it in her tank and had it for several years with no problems. Who knows, all I know is I'm not going to go that route, I'd rather play it safe.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by ksrinlv

Actually collecting live rock in Florida is perfectly legal FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE.

Perhaps you could share that with us with a link to the applicable statute?

As far as I know, it is illegal to collect any live rock in Florida, personal use or otherwise.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by ksrinlv

I have researched the Florida statutes personally about this, and there are only a couple corals that are illegal to collect for personal use, most else is fair game for personal use - NOT FOR SALE!

Have you researched them recently?

All hard corals have been off-limits for years unless you have a permit to collect for scientific research. I believe there used to be strict limits on the collection of certain allowable hexacorallians for personal use but I'm not sure even that is allowable anymore.

According to the State of Florida's Department of Environmental Protection's official website (last updated Jan. 2005):

All coral is protected. It is against the law to collect, harvest or sell Florida corals in state and adjacent federal waters.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/habitats/coral.htm


I found this law that was passed in 1997:


Title XXVIII
NATURAL RESOURCES; CONSERVATION, RECLAMATION, AND USEChapter 370
Saltwater Fisheries
1370.114 Taking of marine corals and sea fans regulated; penalties.--
(1) It is unlawful for any person, as defined in s. 1.01:
(a) To take, attempt to take, or otherwise destroy, or to sell or attempt to sell, any sea fan of the species Gorgonia flabellum or of the species Gorgonia ventalina or any hard or stony coral (Scleractinia) or any fire coral (Millepora); or (b) To possess any fresh, uncleaned, or uncured sea fan of the species Gorgonia flabellum or of the species Gorgonia ventalina or any fresh, uncleaned, or uncured hard or stony coral (Scleractinia) or any fresh, uncleaned, or uncured fire coral (Millepora);

unless it can be proven by certified invoice that the sea fan or coral was imported from a foreign country or unless it can be proven that the sea fan or coral was lawfully taken before July 1, 1976. (2) This section shall not apply to any sea fan or coral taken for scientific or educational purposes when the taking is approved and permitted by the department.

[CRJDriver]

Originally Posted by foresteronw

O.k., that sounds more like what I want to do, a couple of pieces of live rock, some base rock and a couple of chromis to get it going. Like I said before I'm not in a rush and don't mind waiting a couple of weeks.

I got a Coralife 125, it might not be the best skimmer out there but for a hang on the back I've read some pretty decent things about it and it's not going to make me rob a bank to get it.

Foresteronw,
Hows the cycling coming, interested to see how the couple pieces of liverock is working. I have a similiar setup and am at the same stage as you are!

[scubadude]

Wow cool thread I studied this vigorously as so has ricksreef here, you are ONLY allowed to take a 1" substrate of LR (per say) and that is only when its in a non restricted area that is within 3 miles (i believe its 3 it might be 8 now) of the florida coast and ONLY when its a legal Octocoralian class of legal quality which is listed in the fishing guides you can get @ any walmart in florida. The only other way you can harvest LR is with a permit which the ones that have been given are locked and alot them that where not in use for some time where taken away w/no rentry available. Unless the laws have changed recently?

I definately encourage the use of DIY rock but believe me DIY rock (atleast good ones)can take alot of time and some people might opt to just spend the $6+ per lb once they learn how to make DIY rock. Heres a good thread on it

Aragocrete TOTW 1-17-05

[Ninong]

scubadude,

I believe the 1" square rule was to permit the collection of Ricordea florida with the foot attached to a tiny piece of substrate. Is it still legal to collect R. florida in state waters or is all of it coming from Haiti and other areas like that?

As far as I know, it has been VERY illegal to collect live rock in Florida for several years now, for any purpose. This topic came up about four years ago when Reef Central chose as their Tank-of-the-Month a beautiful 400-gal Florida Keys biotope tank. The owner of that tank boasted that everything in the tank (EVERYTHING) was collected locally. When I say everything, I mean live rock, live sand and all of the corals in the tank. Some people questioned how he could get away with that since the tank was kept in his home, not his office at work (NOAA). He seemed to think that his occupational licenses permitted him to conduct "research" at home, too. Those posts that raised these questions were deleted by the board's management.