Getting Started

[grendel]

Hello all, my first post!

Before I get flamed, I went looking for an FAQ but didn't find one.

Any tips on a new marine tank? I bought a glass 58 gallon flat back hex. I am not new to aquariums, actually had a 155gallon marine set up years ago, but it seems like technology and biology has changed a bit.

I bought my tank used, set up for marine by the prior owner. It came with a Fluval 303 and a decent hood and some other items.

What should I do about getting started? I've never played with live sand or live rock. Heck, 20 years ago, it was all about the coloured gravel.

Plans are pretty basic: Couple of fish, some live rock, live sand of course and perhaps an anemone or two. Something to amuse my kids and relax me in my office.

Where do I go for good info?

Thanks in advance!

[BubbaWPB]

There are lots of places to go for information... if you ask some more specific questions, we'd be in a better place to point you in the right direction.

Common questions starting up have to do with filtration, lighting, chemistry, livestock, and the nitrogen cycle. Do some reading on this forum and also use Google searches. Then, don't hesitate to ask questions - there are lots of opinions and more than one way to do just about everything.

I've read scores of books, done a lot of online searches, and still come up with some pretty basic questions several times a week. That's why we're all here - to profit from everyone else's knowledge, experience, successes and failures... and to point people in the right direction to make their own informed decisions.

So, what (specifically) is on your mind? (You can ask as many questions as you want!)

Good luck and welcome to Reefland!

Bubba

P.S. I like this forum because there's a marked lack of flaming...

[showfish]

Welcome Grendel . Well this is a good site to start, plenty of knowledgeable folks here. IMO, I would ditch the Fluval and go with the live rock/live sand. The live rock and sand will provide all the filtration you need. You will probably want to add a good skimmer as well. As far as the live rock goes, about 1lb per gallon is the norm. If you plan on keeping anemones you will want to have good lighting. Depending on the species of anemone you wish to keep you may need intense lighting like MH’s. Do your homework before purchasing these animals however, for they have specific needs depending on the species. You must also wait until the tank is fully mature before attempting to keep them, for the water conditions must be ideal. Good luck to you, and read as much as you can. I have been at this hobby for 20 years and I learn something new every day.

[grendel]

Thank you for your answers and welcome

I had actually planned to use live sand, live rock AND the Fluval... too much?

I am going for minimal maintenance.

Basically, this tank is going to be pretty rock, salt water with perhaps fish! The tank purchase included some coral and fans, I'll probably use those.

Years ago, I went nuts.

Now I just want a moving picture that I can feed.

I know this is probably anathema to some of you, but I want basic and pretty.

Seriously.

So, some questions:

When do I add the live sand?

Live rock? Is there a safe silicon I can use to bind the live rock so it's a stable structure?

What's a good skimmer? Good place to buy one?

Once the tanks cycled, good basic fish? Pretty is helpful, exotic is not.

Do I go for anemones? Sponges? Polyps?

Remember, basic and simple are my key words here. I am starting my research, but not looking for rocket science. Pointers on what to read are most helpful.

edited for typos...

[BubbaWPB]

I had actually planned to use live sand, live rock AND the Fluval... too much?

Not too much, just unnecessary. If you're aiming at low maintenance, skip the Fluval.

I know this is probably anathema to some of you, but I want basic and pretty.

I think all of us live for tank watching (the pretty part). Set up, planning and seeing the fruits of your labor is a fun; cleaning gook out of cracks, crevices, and filters is not. Although some of us are willing to work harder than others, maintenance is probably not everyone's favorite.

When do I add the live sand?

If your live rock has been cured, add it right away when you set up your tank. If your live rock is not cured, cure the rock first, vacuum (by siphon) out the crud that settles to the bottom during the curing, then add the sand. Total curing time for live rock varies and is determined by ammonia, nitrite and nitrate testing - read about "The Nitrogen Cycle".

Live rock?

Live rock gets added as soon as you add the salt water. When you add other stuff depends on if your live rock is cured or not (see live sand question above).

Is there a safe silicon I can use to bind the live rock so it's a stable structure?

Silicon isn't the best binder for live rock. If the rock is live, it is wet. Silicon doesn't stick to wet stuff. There are a number of ways to "bind" live rock - including gravity (very common), underwater epoxies (not all that great), fishing line, and even well-chewed gum. If you do use silicon, be sure it is intended for aquarium use (they don't sell it at Home Depot) - but you must use it on dry objects, let them cure, then you can get them wet.

What's a good skimmer? Good place to buy one?

Depends on what you want to put in your tank. I'm not a skimmer connoisseur, so I'll leave specific recommendations on this question to others.

Once the tanks cycled, good basic fish? Pretty is helpful, exotic is not.

Pick a fish, do a google search and read how much maintenance it needs. There really are myriads of choices.

Do I go for anemones? Sponges? Polyps?

...if you want easy/low maintenance, skip the anemones. Decorative sponges usually don't live long or thrive in tanks, and usually just grow algae. The less decorative sponges grow wild. (Skip the sponges.) What sort or polyps? ...all corals consist of polyps. [/quote]

[grendel]

Set up, planning and seeing the fruits of your labor is a fun; cleaning gook out of cracks, crevices, and filters is not.

Actually, I'd rather skip the whole set up and planning ordeal. If I could have the tank set up, with 5 colors and have it be happy and healthy, I would be very satisfied. I don't mind cleaning, however I hope to have enough organic cleaners with cracks and crevices that they can get into and clean for me. Consider this the lazy man's project!


I've seen "Fiji" live rock... there's all sorts out there. What's best bang for the buck? I am currently looking at 75lbs of "cured" liverock. Should be sufficient? Is there another type out there that's collected and cured so that I can drop it in my tank and go? I will wait for it to cycle, but I've never been patient!

Livesand, how deep do I need to go? Currently calculating 2" deep, although thinking 4" deep with a little bit of pull down with a undergravel filter with a small suction pump to get the detritus into the sand for the sand, crabs and snails to eat.

BTW, if anyone's reading this thread for info:

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/liverockberlinsetups/

Good live rock filtration data.

As for Polyps, I thought more along the softer side of things, like a Green Ricordea Mushroom or perhaps an urchin.

My tank is pretty small, so I want one or two relatively dramatic species for each type (living critter).

My last tank went very well for over 5 years with very little mortality (1 sick fish). Until the end. My girlfriend bleached the tank in a fit of jealousy. I really want to avoid that with my wife and kids... I had a Lactoria cornuta that I really loved. RIP Mr. Moo!

Is it sad that I am going through Saltwaterfish.com, looking at fish that are ranked easy care with peaceful community, then attractiveness as criteria?

Anyone buy from them?

[BubbaWPB]

The only way to be sure that any live rock is cured is to go to a local fish store (LFS) and see the rock in the holding tank for a few weeks. Anything else, and all bets are off whether or not it is "cured". 1 to 1.5 pounds per gallon is good for live rock. Any more, and you won't have much room for other animals!

Do not do the undergravel filter. Period. It's one of the few things in saltwater tanks that just about everyone agrees on. The problem with them occurs a year or two down the road. Major (and often fatal) nitrogen spikes occur from all the waste buildup in the gravel. Even vacuuming the gravel can cause a nitrogen spike.

How much live sand? That is a subject where there is no agreement at all. The good news is that whether you go bare bottom (no sand), deep sand bed (4-6 inches) or somewhere in between, you can't go wrong - they all work. Use aragonite sand, not crushed coral. The crushed coral has difficulties with waste buildup.

If you want pretty colors on your live rock, skip the urchin. They eat all the pretty coralline algae off the rocks. Mushrooms (Ricordea, corallimorphs, etc.) are usually hearty, easy to maintain corals. They also come in a wide variety of colors.

Back to filtration - live rock, live sand and a good protein skimmer are more than adequate for your biological and mechanical filtration.

[grendel]

Ouch, that's going to hurt. LFS prices for live rock around here are about 3x the cost of online.

Skipping the under gravel filter and the fluval.

Found a protein skimmer I like: Aqua C Remora.

Do I go with a Sterilizer?

Any pump suggestions?

I also have a power head that I will probably add for a small amount of current potential.

(you did say ask alot of questions

[showfish]

I agree with Bubba, Do not employ an under gravel filter, for they are for freshwater tanks only. As far as buying cured rock, don't risk it. IMO, you must make sure to cure it yourself. This can be accomplished in the display, however you may have to wait 4 to six weeks before stocking. Keep an eye out on your water pars., for they will tell you when the process is complete. A good test kit is a must, you will probably be better off buying a master kit. This will save you some money, rather than buying individual kits. Take it slow, and enjoy the process.

[BubbaWPB]

Keep the questions coming! They're good ones!

You can get Fiji live rock online... just assume it is not cured when you get it.

Aqua C Remora has a very good reputation... it would be my choice for a hang-on type skimmer.

UV sterilizers and ozonizers are optional. Costly. Most people run tanks successfully without them. Very nice option though.

My only pump suggestion is to stay away from Rio pumps. They have a reputation for starting on fire after a year or two. (Well, most of them don't start on fire, but it happens with enough frequency to be a concern to most of us. They also seem to "freeze up" with calcium deposits easier than other brands, in my experience.)

[grendel]

Keep the questions coming! They're good ones!

You can get Fiji live rock online... just assume it is not cured when you get it.

Aqua C Remora has a very good reputation... it would be my choice for a hang-on type skimmer.

UV sterilizers and ozonizers are optional. Costly. Most people run tanks successfully without them. Very nice option though.

My only pump suggestion is to stay away from Rio pumps. They have a reputation for starting on fire after a year or two.

Ok, going for the uncured "cured" live rock from Fiji.

Would be nice if I could do the sand before I put down the rock. 4" of live sand is what I decided on.

I cheated on the Skimmer... I looked at Showfish's set up!

Say no to Aquarium fires and leaks... skipping Rio.

The chemistry I can settle pretty easily.

Any suggestions on salt additive. Used to use SeaChem back in the day, but I've read about a few different formulas.

[BubbaWPB]

This is an older link but it compares salt mixes:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/sea.../aa090503b.htm

I thought there was a poll on this forum about what salt mixes people use, but I can't seem to find it.

If I recall correctly, Instant Ocean is the top-selling brand. People buy various brands for different reasons. I got outta the debate when I found a local source for natural sea water.... since you live near the coast, that may be an option for you, too. I hear some public aquariums have it available for nominal or no charge. I don't collect my own - the source I have allegedly collects it off shore (away from pollutants), filters, and UV sterilizes it (the filter and UV sterilization are not alleged - I've seen the setup). At 50 cents a gallon, it's a good buy.

Also, if you use salt mix, the purity of the water you use is essential... RO/DI (reverse osmosis/de-ionized) is best. Dechlorinated tap water is a sure setup for failure down the road.

[showfish]

I highly reccomend the Aqua C Remora, it is one of the best HOB skimmers on the market IMO. I have two skimmers on my 120 gal., one in sump and the Aqua C Remora. If you do get the Remora, make sure to get the Mag 3 pump and not the Rio, for the reasons that Bubba has wisely mentioned. One thing you don't want to skimp on is your skimmer, for it is one of the most important components on any good setup.

[grendel]

This is an older link but it compares salt mixes:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/sea.../aa090503b.htm

I thought there was a poll on this forum about what salt mixes people use, but I can't seem to find it.

If I recall correctly, Instant Ocean is the top-selling brand. People buy various brands for different reasons. I got outta the debate when I found a local source for natural sea water.... since you live near the coast, that may be an option for you, too. I hear some public aquariums have it available for nominal or no charge. I don't collect my own - the source I have allegedly collects it off shore (away from pollutants), filters, and UV sterilizes it (the filter and UV sterilization are not alleged - I've seen the setup). At 50 cents a gallon, it's a good buy.

Also, if you use salt mix, the purity of the water you use is essential... RO/DI (reverse osmosis/de-ionized) is best. Dechlorinated tap water is a sure setup for failure down the road.

Hehe, ever read about Boston waters? I think at one point, we had the worst harbour in the world!

I am happy to say that we're on a very good well and I can go north to pick up decent water. Not sure I can move 60 + gallons of it, but I can probably set up with Instant Ocean and my well water then top off the tank with good old Atlantic on a forward going basis. My whole house is on a RO/DI filter, BTW.

[BubbaWPB]

RO/DI sould be fine. However, testing of the RO/DI water is suggested - allegedly, the whole house systems usually don't have the same grade of RO membranes as the aquarium supply ones do... there are some people on this forum who can answer any questions you have on the RO/DI systems.

[Krom]

if you want good cured live rock order from Premium Aquatics. The are ture to what they say and it is some of teh best live rock I have ever seen. I am close enough to be able to go over and see the stuff myself..

you will not be unhappy with this place

[grendel]

Do you think this is enough light?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DUAL-175-W-MH-DU...QQcmdZViewItem

How about the price?

I am going with the Aqua C Remora. Any details on the "Maxi-jet 1200" pump?

[BubbaWPB]

Maxi-jet pumps are great. I'm lighting impaired, so I'll pass on the lighting recommendation....

[grendel]

You guys think this rock would be cured?

http://www.aquaaddicts.com/

They're pretty close to me.

[BubbaWPB]

I've never dealt with them. Unless you go there, and you know how long they cure it, all bets are off.... and if it's shipped, unless it's shipped in water, you still have to cure it.

There is technically no problems adding live sand and uncured live rock at the same time you fill the tank... however, as the rock cures, lots of crud falls off the rocks... it's just easier to cure the rock, siphon out the crud, then add the sand.