Red 'Algae' Out of Control

[newtothis]

Help! we have a rust-coloured [algae?] [red cyano bacteria? suggested by pet store] or whatever in our 33 gal. salt-water tank and we cannot get rid of it. The pet store recommended treating with chemo clean, which we did 3x's over a 2 week period, following instructions on the package.[April 22-May7] The problem has not gone away, we have changed the water 20%, 30%, scrapped the glass, the rock the substrate and get it looking pretty good the the next day, it is all back and gets worse if we leave it for a day.
Equipment: AquaClear200 with carbon & sponge filters and a AquaClear___with carbon &spongefilters. Filters rinsed once a week carefully to remove slim and replaced every 6-8 weeks as needed, one at a time over a few days, so as not to upset any good backteria(we hope)] Lighting is Perfecto 9N1 120volt-60Hz-50 watt brand new bulb. The heater[LR93824 GE] keeps temp around 78- 79.5 and a wave-maker. Livestock include 2 clown fish, 1 yellow-tail damsel, 1 six-line wrasse, 1 mandarinfish(newly added), 3 hermit crabs, 1 emerald crab(newly added), and 6 algae-eating snails. I was over feeding and have cut down emmensel. for the past 2 weeks we have only been feeding once every two days and very little [we feed a mixture of flake, kernel[slow sinking/the clown fish love it] & frozen food/ shrimpetc.]
Can anyone help us fix this problem????

[BubbaWPB]

Ok... not to panic. Let's start with some basics: what is your chemistry looking like? Nitrates? Nitrites? Ammonia? Phosphates? pH? Do you have a protein skimmer? What is your source of top off water?

Cyanobacteria is not the end of the world... it is controllable. The first thing is to find the source of the excess nutrients causing it to bloom.

[newtothis]

As of today our salinity is 1.22[just added salt water yesterday as salinity was low after replacing water] it is usually 1.23 to 1.24 and the temp. is always 78 to 79.5 degrees. we use tap water and add Start Right to it, and weekly we add Cycle Supplement [also when new fish or invertabrae's are added]. The nitrites and nitrates are good, ammonia and pH also good. We do not have a protein skimmer.

[leebca]

Newtothis,

Bubba has the right approach. If you don't feed it, it won't grow.

But the answers to Bubba's questions are not detailed enough. We want to know the actual measurements you're getting for:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Phosphate

I have never trusted tap water. So, I would like to know more about the source water you use. One way is for you to perform the above tests on your tap water, before you put in the additive and before you make up fresh saltwater.


Lastly, I want you to take the tap water you tested and make up fresh saltwater with it and the additive you use and. . .test it again. I would like to have all three sets of numbers. The numbers of your tank now; the numbers of the source water; the numbers of the newly made up saltwater before you would use it in the aquarium.

In the meantime, you can consider 'red-algae' eating snails. If it is more of slime red 'stuff' consider a sea hare addition to your tank. Let them eat it while you bring it under control.

When did your aquarium originally go through the cycle? Has it gone through any cycle recently?

You have a 33 gallon tank, right? If you have, say the 'average' amount of live rock, you would probably have about 35 to 50 pounds of it. If you have some substrate, say of an inch or more, that will take up some room, too.

So you have 5 fishes, and 10 invertebrates in this tank. You don't mention the size of the fishes. Maybe you are pressing your bio-load for the amount of water left in this tank?

Is the mandarin fish eating? Eating what?

I would not recommend starving your fishes. Continue to feed them properly while you address the other concern.

Anyway, specific numbers would be more useful for us to help you. Thanks for posting.

[BubbaWPB]

newtothis, I know this is a lot to digest. As long as your fish are doing well with the water changes, there's hope things will eventually work out. Water changes will work, they just become expensive and onerous to complete.

While you're getting us the other information, I'd suggest two specific things you can do in the meanwhile:

1. Get yourself a decent protein skimmer. Once you see it in action, you'll see how much "algae fertilizer" is in your tank without you even knowing... (Remora by Aqua-C is a very nice hang on, btw http://www.proteinskimmer.com/productsnew.htm.)
2. Use RO/DI water for top off water and saltwater mixing.

You'll save the price of a small RO/DI unit very quickly if you can cut down on the water changes (salt mix isn't cheap). Good luck.

[leebca]

Newtothis,

From what I can tell of your aquarium and problem, I'd probably the best place for this thread would be the Saltwater (Fish-Only) Aquariums Forum. I've moved the thread to that location, however I and others will still be following the thread.

Good luck!

[newtothis]

got ahead of myself here. see next message

[newtothis]

well we are getting a few steps forward on this problem. My husband says [he does the glass scrapping, etc.] "it" is slimy and more brown than red, the red stuff that was had to get off the glass is gone. Could the green algae-tuft-like matter on the rocks and hermit crabs and snails be this bloom you mentioned, as this has happened once before in March, 2 months after we set-up this 33-gal.?

To answer everyones Questions: We feed the Mandarin fish a Frozen Marine Cuisine fo Carnivores and/or shrimp, chopped very small and after the other fish have been feed. He?/She? picks food off the rocks etc. It is fun to wath him/her "walk" upside down on the bottom of a rock eating. The other food offered are: all Nutrafin max Brand- and recommended by the employees at our pet store [they appear to be very knowledgable as I check what you guys are saying and you all concur but they are very busy in their store!!] Anyway we feed a mixture of Marine complete slow-sinking morsels; a Spirulina Algae flake Food; and A Complete Flake food. Mixture in A.M., Frozen stuff in P.M., feed slowly and very small amounts at a time making sure everyone eats.

As for the tests here are the results: May 29th

aquarium water tap water tap water
before ----------------------- after ---------------adding Salt and Start Right

pH: over 8.7 (dark purple) 7.9 (green) over 8.7 (med. purple)

ammonia: 0.1 - 0.15 0.0 0.0 - 0.05

nitrite: 0.2 0.0 0.0

I do not have a nitrate test kit, so will take it to pet store tommorrow. I had them test for me 2 weeks ago and the nitite and nitrate were at good levels although he didn't give specifics.

We have about 9 or 10 lbs. of live rock, about 1" to 1 1/2" of substrate, and our fish are small [biggest 2.5", smallest 1.5" and 4-5 oz.'s total] I add Cycle to tank [recommended amount] every week.
Now we had a automatic feeder and were trying to regulate that so we could go away for a week. My hubby set the wrong amount once and spilt some once and because we had too much crushed oyster shells on the sand for substrate alot of food disappeared there. we've removed most of the oyster shell. could this be the problem? should we remove all the substrate [slowly, a little at a time] rinse it and just put back the sand while adding extra Cycle? Long post but hope I've explained everything.
newtothis appreciates all the help she can get.

[leebca]

Thanks for the additional information. Maybe some things are coming more into focus. The following are just my observations from the information provided. They may be wrong because you have other information so far as yet not shared. However, some may apply. You have to decide. It's sort of like thinking out loud, only I'm writing 'out loud.'

Could the green algae-tuft-like matter on the rocks and hermit crabs and snails be this bloom you mentioned

Bubba would elaborate on this. He made that comment.

The feeding process is very good. I'd emphasize whole foods, not just pieces of shrimp tail. I think you need to improve the diet/foods you use, plus include proper food supplements. For more info on this, see here: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

I still have a concern about the mandarin. You're sure it's eating what you put into the tank? They usually go around picking at the substrate and rocks, but that doesn't mean they are eating anything. Just double check that it's actually eating what you're putting into the tank.

Slimy red/brown may be what is called red slime growth. Often it shows up when the phosphate content is high. We still haven't seen that nor the nitrate analysis yet.

I have a concern about the test you're using for pH. I think you should be sure the test kit is fresh. You might want to consider using a test kit that gives very clear indicating colors, or invest in a hand-held pH meter, unless you think the $80 is too much. You want to control pH closely for the sake of the fishes. For that you need a reliable, least amount of guesswork, and accurate to 0.1 pH unit or less test kit or meter.

Your fresh water should be giving you zero readings on ammonia and nitrites. I'd like you still to test that water for nitrates and phosphates.

The tank began in January? It takes months (depending upon the type tank and your experience, about 6-8 months) for the tank to 'mature.' That means, to go through its different phases of various types of microbial growth. During this time, it is usually not recommended to put fishes into the aquarium, or if you must, something that is very hardy after the first three months only.

I think your tank is going through some adjustments with the bio-load and still not having matured. This may have led to off-and-on rises in phosphates together with a lower-than-desired source water.

If the problem is the food overdoses you mentioned, it would be best to use something like a gravel vacuum cleaner, rather than disturbing the substrate by removing it and washing it. Any cleaning may destroy the life on the substrate.

Your tank/system should not be dependent upon Cycle. If the tank can't run without this 'band-aid' then there is definitely something not right with the system as it obviously hasn't settled down or matured. So I am wondering if, in between your measurements and the various changes in your source water quality, there hasn't been fluctuations in ammonia and nitrite levels.

Most of the above can have a profound effect on the growth of such things as red slime, brown algae (diatoms), etc.

Just my opinions. Others may see it differently. ;;

[BubbaWPB]

I'd advise adding more live rock - at least a pound per gallon; even better is 1.5-2 pounds per gallon. Make sure that the live rock is CURED before you add it or your tank may cycle and kill your critters. Another choice is to add small amounts of live rock at time, waiting a few weeks and adding another small piece or two. Note that if you buy CURED rock online, and it is shipped to you, it is no longer cured (unless it is sent in water).

Slime algae and hair algae are both indications of too much nutrients in the tank. More live rock will help process nitrogen compounds, but depending on the phosphate level (see if your LFS can/will test for this), you may want to use a phosphate binder.

I agree with Lee - cutting back on the frequency of feeding can starve your fish. Just make sure there is not abundant leftovers when you feed. Adding scavengers (various snails, "clean up crews", etc.) can help with leftovers and also some may help with the algae.

Good luck!

[newtothis]

my spouse is ready to remove, sell or dump aquarium in garbage, this algae problem has us going crazy. Anyway we did as I said and removed the inhabitants to another tank with water and live rock, we then removed 50% of water [counting what went into the 10 gal. with fish] we then syphoned out the rest with the sludge, [boy was there a lot of sludged]. then removed substrate and filtered out the crushed oyster shells of which we had too much, then re-added water to tank with some new sand/old sand on top. Topped off water with new and put inhabitants back in. I sure hope this all works or I maybe newtonothing.

bought a nitrate test and will think about pH gizmo $80 is alot to spend right now. Will do all tests in am as it has taken all day to do above and I'm done in, not to mention said spouse who does most of the heavy work. will post results of chemical tests in am.

[leebca]

I think the most significant part of your post is the 'sludge.' I would attribute your algae problem mostly to its presence. You don't want 'junk' or 'sludge' or detritus building up in your tank or system, anywhere.

Good luck!

We'll be waiting and hoping for the best.

[newtothis]

Tank looks marvelous!! But [yes there is a but], there is 'reddish-brown' stuff coming on the sand, along edge and on top. At the moment it is a wait and see situation, if it goes up the glass I may start pulling hair!! someone elses. We bought a whole new lighting system as hubby dropped ours in the tank, fortunately no critters were hurt, so between that, to much food, tank needing to mature and a hubby who is not working and needing something to do early in the mornings[4:30-5:00] wife is sleeping, many things were done & rearranged, rocks cleaned in hot water!!!,etc. etc. Hubby will be rearranged next if he touches tank without me present or in agreement. In fact maybe hubby would look good in a saltwater tank!!!! It's okay we're married 37 years this month. Hubby says what he has cleaned off the glass & brushed off rocks seemed more like " brown dust" than anything. Anyway will go do chemi. test for nitrate. Do not have phosphate test kit so will need to go to local store and get them to do it, tommorrow.

[BubbaWPB]

You will always have to clean the glass every couple of days and blow the crud off the rocks. It's a normal part of aquarium maintenance. You just don't want your rocks to be green and hairy or red and slimy (that is NOT normal). Patience, persistence, and good tank hygiene win out in the end.

[newtothis]

So far so good, got our fingers crossed. The 'reddishbrown'"stuff" has
not spread to much, other than top of sand, in places, along edge of sand and glass and very lightly on glass and seems to be staying that way!

There is green 'grass-like' tufts on live rock should we mow it off and how to do so? All fishes, and invertabraes are healthy looking, very mobile and getting slowly bigger. But I'm concerned about comment here about my mandarin getting enough to eat. He/she gets wormy things and shrimp pieces and other carnivorous food [as perscribed by pet store personal who compares favouably with you guys in marine knowledge]. My hubby even thinks he grew a bit!! Should I worry? Seems very active and not suffering to me.

[leebca]

I'd say if you are sure it is eating and eating the proper carnivore foods, then you are most of the way there. The foods you feed need to be supplemented with vitamins and fats.

You can get most of the info you need on the above suggestions here:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

[newtothis]

Our tank does look better, still cleaning off glass every morning. seems to get worse after light has been on awhile. LPS thinks more live rock [as per Bubba suggested] and I agree, so will slowly add as can afford.

[newtothis]

the algae is mostly on the sand and very lightly on glass and rocks. will do a water change of 20 to 30% on Sunday and every Sunday following. hope this will solve problem.

had phosphate & pH test done at LPS: pH - 8.5
phosphate - .25 -.50

tests done at home: temp. 80% F
salinity 33
specific gravity 1.024
ammonia 0
nitrate 5 or less
nitrite 0.1 or less

[I tend to see a darker colour, hubby lighter so take the middle]

other than all this I don't know what else to do I think there were to many things going on new tank-not matured, adding new fish, to much food and to much "cleaning off of good stuff" from rocks.Combination of all made a very brown tank. But the fish are growing, active and healthy looking.

Have lost a hermit crab and a snail in all this water change. may have gotten chucked out. hope not!!

[leebca]

I don't know the test kit your LFS was using, so I don't know how sensitive it is. You would like to have a phosphate level below 0.01

With all the water changes, there is still something releasing phosphorous, or you are adding it. What is your source water? It might be worth checking the phosphate on your source water AND the salt water freshly made up, as if you were going to do a water change with it.

After the results of the above tests, then maybe I can go along with tank immaturity and changes, to some degree.

[Captain326]

I have found an interesting product that might help anyone looking to get rid of red slime. Has been recomended on many occasions
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/...tegory_id=2223