[gummi_67]

Hi,
As many members have seen in my previous post I am a newbie starting a saltwater aquarium. I'm (as recommended) in the research stage and trying to figure out what equipment to get. What tank size would you recommend for a community of the following fish (please forgive my terminology) :

2 - 3 Clownfish
2 - 3 Yellow Tangs
1 - 2 Angelfish
1 small Blowfish (not sure of species name)
1 - 2 Seahorses

I am unsure of the quantities yet. These are rough numbers but are definitely fish that I'd love to have in my tank. I was planning on doing a 75 gallon tank with a sump and overflow. An Aqua-C protein skimmer and at this time I'm unsure of the rest. I'd put maybe 110 lbs of live rock in the tank.

How am I looking so far? I would also like some fish that help maintain the tank but not sure what to get.

[Reefland]

Those fish get much to large and territorial for a tank of 75 gallon. Maximum for a 75 would be 1 tang (and that is tight), the clowns, and maybe a dwarf angel. Seahorses would require a specialized tank so exclude those.

[Ninong]

In a 75-gal tank, it would be better to limit the clownfish to two, not three. Any two clownfish of the same species, assuming they are not mature females, will form a pair. Most clownfish that are offered for sale nowadays are captive-bred and usually still juveniles.

You can't keep any of the large angelfish in a 75-gal tank. It's just too small for any of those. You could keep dwarf angelfish.

The blowfish (pufferfish) could be any one of a large number of fish. Most of these are problematic for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is their toxicity. If you choose to keep a pufferfish, you must be very careful in choosing it's tankmates.

I wouldn't keep any tangs in a 75-gal tank. You might be able to keep a single yellow tang in a 90-gal tank but that's really too small, too. Almost all of the tangs require a tank that is at least 6-ft long, unless it's a really large cube tank, such as 48"x48".

Seahorses require dedicated tanks.

[The R/C Man]

If you are not considering a future upgrade to a reef then the start up costs of a larger tank are fairly negligible and will allow you to house more fish or larger species of fish. Start with your budget is and work from there.

[gummi_67]

Well after some research it seems that a pufferfish is way out of the question. Seahorses seem to be out as well since they die easily, are bullied easily, and are for experts.

Can anyone suggest some good fish and quantities for a 75 gallon tank? What drew me to saltwater is the amazing colour and grace. I'd like fish that are pretty active and very bright. Clown fish for sure. I love the yellow tang and would have to have one of those. What else would be a good option?

Also what clean up crew would be optimal?

I've noticed on RateMyFishTank.com that there are a lot of people with 55 - 72 gallon tanks keeping 2 tangs, clowns and a LOT of fish. Their tanks seem to thrive and be ok - but I've been told otherwise by other hobbyists. So what's the take?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by gummi_67

Can anyone suggest some good fish and quantities for a 75 gallon tank? What drew me to saltwater is the amazing colour and grace. I'd like fish that are pretty active and very bright.

Fairy wrasses fit that description to a tee. They have amazing color, lots of personality and are active swimmers. For a 75-gal tank, I would suggest you stick to just one species but you could get one male and two females. You could even get one male and three females but that would cut into what else you could fit in.

I like the Orchid Dottyback a lot. It is very colorful, although all the same color. It is the most peaceful of all the dottybacks. Mine never caused any problems but maybe that's because my fairy wrasses were much larger than my dottyback. You should only keep one species of this fish (preferably Pseudochromis fridmani) and probably only one specimen. They are difficult to pair up successfully without doing serious harm to each other.

Flasher wrasses would also be an interesting possibility. They are much smaller than fairy wrasses. Again, one male and two or three females of the same species is all you could put in a 75-gal tank. I wouldn't mix wrasses in a 75-gallon. Go with either fairies or flashers (of one species), but not both.

There are lots of other possibilities. Those are just some of my favorites.

Clown fish for sure. I love the yellow tang and would have to have one of those. What else would be a good option?

Your tank is marginal for any of the fish that are "good options" that fill in for tangs. A foxface rabbitfish in my opinion is even better than a tang but I don't think a 75-gal tank is large enough for one. I kept one in my 120-gal tank and I realized after he was mature that the tank was really too small for him. A good minimum size for a foxface rabbitfish or a yellow tang would be 135 gallons. Naturally other people will have their own opinions on that.

Also what clean up crew would be optimal?

For a 75-gal tank, several Trochus snails, several Cerith snails, and several Nassarius vibex snails (assuming you have a sandbed) would be good for starters. I would also include a few baby bristleworms (Eurythoe complanata) -- they multiply rapidly in captivity. Also, if you can find them, get a few mini brittlestars and maybe a couple of so-called spaghetti worms (again only if you have a sandbed for the spaghetti worms). A 75-gal is too small for a sand cuke or a fighting conch.

I've noticed on RateMyFishTank.com that there are a lot of people with 55 - 72 gallon tanks keeping 2 tangs, clowns and a LOT of fish. Their tanks seem to thrive and be ok - but I've been told otherwise by other hobbyists. So what's the take?

There is even a photograph of a 25-gal tank with 7 yellow tangs in volume three of Fossa & Nilsen's otherwise excellent TMCRA-3. Why they included that particular tank is beside me. I have never had the gall to ask them but I have been tempted on a couple of occasions.

People do a lot of strange things in this hobby. It's up to you to figure out which people to copy.

Good luck!



P.S. -- Fairy wrasses and flasher wrasses are jumpers. Do not even think about them unless you make your tank jumper-proof.

[gummi_67]

Thanks again for the help. Good info.

I'm still in the research stages so I'll be asking many questions...

I know that live rock is important to an environment... is it essential? I've heard that live rock and it's community really help to keep your tank clean and circulated. If you were to put very little live rock in your tank, add a clean up crew, sump, protein skimmer and a good filtration system - would it make up for having minimal live rock?

[Ninong]

It is possible to set up a marine aquarium without any live rock at all. You see a lot of those in shopping malls, doctors' offices and other places where the tank is maintained by a local aquarium maintenance company and not the tank's owner. This sort of a tank is really out-dated in my opinion. It looks so sterile and artificial. I would NEVER want something like that in my home.

In my opinion, live rock is the most important component of any marine aquarium.

[gummi_67]

Ninong, can you perhaps post a link of what an 'outdated' tank looks like?

Here's a wild question - hopefully i don't get flamed. How would a tank look/react with the following:

75 Gallon
40 lbs live rock
2 clown fish
1 yellow tang
1 powder blue tang
misc snails, 1 or 2 fighting conch (cleanup)
no sump - but a protein skimmer, heater, and canister filter
aragonite rock in the bottom
No plants or anemones

I'm not saying that I will do this but the more answers I get the better I can understand. With regular maintenance and testing...?

[Ninong]

Fifteen to twenty years ago, marine tanks used to have dead coral skeletons and artificial decorations. They looked sterile. They looked artificial. Just fish swimming around between bleached skeletons and maybe some plastic plants.

Some saltwater tanks are still like that. I think they look awful. Sometimes the most expensive tanks you will ever want to see are filled with nothing but dead skeletons and artificial decorations, like this one:



Or this one:



Or this one:



Those people spent a ton of money on the tanks but they look ridiculous. They don't look natural at all. And the people who own them probably never get their hands wet.

[gummi_67]

I saw a tank like this today at the rainforest cafe and you're right - it looks terrible. so generic.

I think i'd rather save some $$ with the sump and go with some more live rock instead.

But my research is coming along great. I think I know the fish that I want, the tank size, the equipment... so it's coming along. You have been a great help.

[Ninong]

That's a 9-ft long, 650-gal custom built-in tank. It is not doubt a gorgeous installation that probably cost well over $25,000.00 including equipment. Too bad it is filled with fake corals!

Notice that the genius who installed the fake corals aimed the Montipora capricornis out towards the front glass instead of upwards. There was absolutely no attempt to recreate a natural appearance. Fortunately for the aquarium maintenance company that probably charged a fortune for this installation, plus thousands of dollars more per year for a maintenance contract, the homeowners probably have no idea what live corals actually look like or even the fact that they're not "plants."



P.S. -- I remember reading on one website that the homeowner could select from various custom color schemes in the fake corals to match their living room upholstery or drapes.

P.P.S. -- The people who are responsible for that tank above, had the following to say about another one of their artificial creations: "A beautiful Imperator Angel and Sohol [sic] Tang swim among the false coral never knowing that what they are seeing is not real. We can design an insert for you in any color sceme and to your exact visual specifications."

"Our coral creations are so realistic that the fish treat them as if they were the real deal. Who can blame them with reproductions like this."

[Ninong]

The guys who built that beautiful tank above with all the false corals pointing in the wrong direction also sell fish and other marine livestock. Their website is full of little gems such as this:

French Angelfish (Pomacanthus paru)

Origin: Indo-Pacific

And they have the nerve to reference Scott Michael's Reef Fishes as their reference source.

As I'm sure we all know, this is an Atlantic species that ranges from Florida and the Bahamas to Brazil; also the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean, including Antilles. It is also supposedly found in the Eastern Atlantic off Ascension Island and St. Paul's Rocks but Scott Michael says the Eastern Atlantic may be erroneous.

It isn't surprising that people who point their fake M. capricornis sideways wouldn't have any idea which angelfish are found in the Atlantic/Caribbean. I tried to see if they were selling any Queen Angelfish just to see where they thought those came from but I guess they're out of those at the moment.

[wozza]

..

[wozza]

it just looks like a very bad modern art painting in there!! poor fish

[Ninong]

There is evidently a large market for marine aquaria as decorative additions to upscale homes. One builder in the SF Bay Area even advertised a custom-built, $5 million home in Lafayette as having three built-in marine aquaria. I don't know if the builder himself was an enthusiast or if he just thought it would be a nice touch and good selling feature but he built a positively gorgeous home with three built-in marine tanks, including one in the master bathroom wall next to the huge jacuzzi-style bathtub. I'm not sure if all of the tanks were fish-only or not because the only photo in the newspaper feature was of the bathroom tank and it was fish-only with artificial decorations.

I hope the aquarium maintenance company that did the original installations also offers professional maintenance services because chances are that the prospective homebuyer will know absolutely nothing about marine tanks. And chances are that the equipment installed with those tanks is not what most reef-tank enthusiasts would choose.

[sopranogirl]

I was going to suggest a 55 gallon, but for the amount of live stock you desire I would shoot atleast for a 75. I would like to just make one note. I don't know if if stylistically you'll like it, but aim for a longer rather than taller tank- It is so much easier to decorate because you don't need to pile up the rock so high, plus tall decor is hard to find, and pricey. I have a 37 tall and I have a hard time hiding the tall back. Gives me a headache, eek.

[sopranogirl]

I think the tanks are gorgeous. I'm just a novice but I wish my tanks look like that, well atleast. Live rock can get gross! live rock is not for every owner. I have about 5lbs of it and sometimes it looks filthy, and about 10lbs of base rock to boot, and some faux coral, and they are very happy