[philolsen]

I am thinking about getting sand from Home Depot for a new tank, has anyone had any issues doing this?

[LGR]

I have friends that have used home depot "play sand" and its worked fine, just make sure you rinse it well like you would with any gravel/sand.

[tray262]

Also if you want the benifits of the sand helping to maintain PH you should do the viniger test to see if it's agg. sand or silia sand, Do a search for "Viniger test".

[Reefland]

Personally, I would not use anything but aragonite sand. Although many people use other types (silica sand), some report problems and some do not.

[leebca]

One of the problems with silica sand is that the commercial material is suitable for human use, but its contamination with other materials makes it unsuitable for the marine aquarium. A truly pure silica sand should be very reliable.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by LGR

I have friends that have used home depot "play sand" and its worked fine, just make sure you rinse it well like you would with any gravel/sand.

You live in New Jersey. It's quite possible that your friends used true aragonite "play sand" because it just happens to be available at Home Depot stores in New Jersey... usually. "Play sand" can be either quartz sand or aragonite sand. If you look for it at Home Depot, look in the Garden Department (it's seasonal) and make sure that the bag contains the words "Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean." It MUST include that phrase if you're looking for calcareous sand and not regular quartz sand.

Unfortunately, the good stuff (aragonite sand) is only available at Home Depot stores along the East coast from Virginia to Massachusetts and occasionally in some parts of Ohio. It is NOT available nationwide. I'm including Pennsylvania as part of the East Coast. It actually arrives in Easton, PA by barge from the Bahamas via Ft. Pierce, FL.

Aragonite sand reacts with vinegar (or hydrochloric acid) to release carbon dioxide. Quartz sand does not. If you drop some vinegar on aragonite sand, it will fizz. It you place a small amount of aragonite sand in a cup of vinegar, it will dissolve. Quartz (silica) sand will not.

[rjs5134]

Ninong, does that mean you would endorse using aragonite sand purchased from Home Depot?? Is there another sand that you would recommend more strongly?? I have a crushed coral base that I hope to replace eventually, maybe when I upgrade to a 150gal.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by rjs5134

Ninong, does that mean you would endorse using aragonite sand purchased from Home Depot??

Of course. That's what I used for my 6" deep sand bed.

Is there another sand that you would recommend more strongly??

All aragonite sand comes from the same place in the Bahamas. It's mined by Marcona Ocean Industries. It is then sold to various large customers for different purposes. Home Depot is a vendor of aragonite sand intended for "landscaping" and "childrens' sand boxes." It used to be branded as "Southdown Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean" and "Yardright Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean." Then Southdown was purchased by the gigantic Mexican conglomerate CEMEX of Monterrey. It was still called Southdown or Yardright. However, about a year or so ago, CEMEX sold Southdown to the gigantic conglomerate Oldcastle and the exact same sand is now branded "Oldcastle Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean."

Dr. Rob Toonen, an avid reefkeeper for the past 20 years, did a particle size analysis on Southdown aragonite sand seven years ago. It showed that the particle size distribution is excellent for those wishing to set up a deep sand bed that would be a viable habitat for a wide array of diverse sand bed infauna.

This sand is usually available at select Home Depots in the areas I mentioned previously but it is a seasonal item. It shows up in the Garden Departments in the very early spring and it is usually gone by late summer. It used to sell for as little as $3.98/50-lb bag in early spring and then the price was usually cut in half to $1.99 per bag in late summer. I'm not sure what it sells for now but I believe it's still less than $5 per bag. Unfortunately, it's usually not in stock before March. And it is virtually never in stock at Home Depots in other parts of the country, although there have been a few reported instances where hobbyists were able to somehow persuade their local Home Depot to transfer some in from another store. This is extremely rare and it is not something Home Depot approves of. In fact, there were many reported instances of some Home Depot managers refusing to sell this sand to anyone who said it was for use in an aquarium and I believe the current labels on the bags state that it is not for use in an aquarium. There's a long story behind that warning that doesn't deserve comment.

Anyway, if you can find it, buy it and consider yourself lucky. If you live in New Jersey, ask Zhenya for advice on where to find it. He lives in New Jersey.



P.S. -- I guess I should repeat that not all "play sand" is aragonite sand. Play sand can be either quartz (SiO2) sand or aragonite (CaCO3) sand. It is usually quartz sand.

[Ninong]

I'll probably regret adding to the confusion here but I should probably point out that fine particle aragonite sand is not ideal for every system. In fact, a deep sand bed composed of fine particle aragonite sand is not ideal for every system.

It is ideal for those wishing to set up a sand bed of at least 4" depth but it may not be ideal if one wishes to run a very high water flow tank dedicated to SPS. Many hobbyists, Kevinpo included, have used a fine particle deep sand bed in a large tank with reasonably high water flow but it is certainly more difficult to work with this sediment than with something of a larger particle size if you intend to really crank up the water current. I believe Kevin's sand bed in his 563-gal tank is at least 4" deep and it's composed of fine particle aragonite sand.

This is one of those personal preference things. If you choose fine particle aragonite sand you will have an ideal environment for so many sand dwelling critters and it's even better for many wrasses and other fish that like sand beds than the larger particle stuff but you have to be careful in adjusting your water currents or you will end up with sand all over your live rock. It takes a good three months for a fine particle sand bed to really settle down but even then it won't be as suitable as larger particle sand for a really high flow tank. Of course, if you want extremely high flow, you may want to consider going with no sand bed at all.

Wayne Shang used Carib-Sea's Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand for the 3" DSB in his 718-gal reef aquarium and his 300-gal FOWLR aquarium. That is a large (1.0-2.0mm) particle aragonite sand. That's one approach. It has worked quite well for him and he has been doing this for the past 25 years.

[rjs5134]

Ninong I'm glad you added to the confusion but need a little more advise. I've been to nearly a dozen Home Depot's in North Jersey and haven't found aragonite sand yet. I've found three different kinds of sand, one by OldCastle as I said in my other post, but none that passed the vinegar test. In light of my difficulties I currently have no substrate and I kind of like it. Very easy to maintain and one less item to be concerned with.

Just prior to this issue coming up, I purchased a blue dot jawfish, something I've wanted for a very long time. Now I feel I should find the sand so my prized fish has the optimum conditions. My goal is this, a reef style tank with several small fish, including the jawfish. As far as corals, I would like some SPS so relatively high flow may be necessary.

Question 1: Would the jawfish just prefer the DSB, or does he really need it.
Question 2: Would a slightly larger aragonite particle size be ok in a 4"+/- DSB or would it create other water quality issues. I was thinking of something like Carib-Sea Special Grade which is like 1-2mm.

The water quality issues are obviously important, I just got rid of my nitrate infested crushed coral base.

Thanks for your help.

Rob

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by rjs5134

I've been to nearly a dozen Home Depot's in North Jersey and haven't found aragonite sand yet.

Check with zhenya. He lives near you. See if he knows where it can be found right now.

In light of my difficulties I currently have no substrate and I kind of like it. Very easy to maintain and one less item to be concerned with.

This is one way to go. The main disadvantage is that you are compromised in the variety of animals you can keep and you forego a valuable resource that will greatly aid in the completion of the nitrogen cycle in your system.

Just prior to this issue coming up, I purchased a blue dot jawfish, something I've wanted for a very long time. Now I feel I should find the sand so my prized fish has the optimum conditions. My goal is this, a reef style tank with several small fish, including the jawfish. As far as corals, I would like some SPS so relatively high flow may be necessary.

You can achieve relatively high flow with a sand bed. You just can't achieve extremely high flow. Many, many experienced hobbyists have SPS dominated tanks with sand beds.

Question 1: Would the jawfish just prefer the DSB, or does he really need it.

A sand bed is an absolute necessity for this fish (Opistognathus rosenblatti). I can't imaging keeping one without a sand bed. It's a sand dweller. It lives in a vertical burrow in the sand. This fish is a jumper. Your tank must be made jumper-proof. I think the ideal sand bed for this fish would include a certain amount of larger pieces and shell pieces mixed in. Not a lot, just some.

Question 2: Would a slightly larger aragonite particle size be ok in a 4"+/- DSB or would it create other water quality issues. I was thinking of something like Carib-Sea Special Grade which is like 1-2mm.

Wayne Shang uses that sand for his 3" DSB in his 718-gal reef aquarium. I don't think this particle size would "create other water quality issues." Whether it is ideal or not depends on a lot of other variables about your desires for your system. I have considered the possibility of using this particular product for a 3" DSB in a large tank with extremely high water flow (similar to Wayne's setup) and I have also considered the possibility of using the Oldcastle/Southdown product for a 4"+ DSB in a large tank with just plain old garden variety high water flow, similar to Kevinpo's tank.

[rjs5134]

Wow, thanks for the fast reply. Although very expensive, the sand at the lfs is readily available and at this stage of modifying my system, my needs may outway the additional cost.

My jawfish needs are important, therefore he will get his DSB. Sounds like a win/win situation since I will benefit also from the additional nitrification. The tank had a glass canopy which I removed to try to moderate the temperature fluctuation from the MH's. I now have a chiller which will be installed soon so I should be able to replace the canopy.

Thanks as always.

[carlc]

Oldcastle stopped selling this sand about a year and a half ago. You can still find the occasional supply of it at Home Depots and older Lowes.

I got lucky last fall and found a half skid! It was marked as discontinued and I bought 14 bags for $1.75 each.

Carl