[wozza]

hi, im getting intreasted in keeping a/some Flasher Wrasse, Fairy Wrasse at the moment i am heading towards. Lineatus Fairy Wrasse - Cirrhilabrus lineatus
and or
Blue Flasher Fairy Wrasse - Paracheilinus cyaneus

i would like any info on there care, habbits or anything else you feel i should know.

i would like to keep 2 of both, is this possible in my aquarium of my size?
if not would 3 of one be possible? if not... well what would?

oh and would my six line be Pi**ed off at the addition of another wrasse?

thanks james

[leebca]

I don't have direct experience with either of these fish, however from my colleagues and aquarist friends I believe the following generalities apply:

Cirrhilabrus lineatus
They are very peaceful and will get along with other small wrasses. They will be okay in your sized aquarium.

Paracheilinus cyaneus
Same as above. Though it should be considered for a larger aquarium.

Pseudocheilinus hexataenia
These guys are usually peaceful, but have been known to harass smaller wrasses and newly introduced wrasses. It will have to be watched closely to see what, if any, reaction it has to the addition.

-------
These, like most wrasses are carnivores and if you offer whole sea foods that will fit their mouths AND follow the posted guidelines in the sticky on fish feeding, they should be nutritionally sound and healthy.

These are just generalities. Nothing can account for 'personalities.' Fishes that should get along sometimes don't. Fishes that shouldn't get along sometimes do. This is the personality factor that can't be accounted for. Why my Clown Tang chases (but doesn't nip at nor attack) my Convict Tang and ignores four other Tangs and a Rabbitfish is beyond reason.

[wozza]

thanks lee, so adding 3 Cirrhilabrus lineatus would be ok in my tank?
providing i keep an eye on my Pseudocheilinus hexataenia.

cheers james

[leebca]

I have shared all I know about this. Sorry I can't answer that one.

You might want to search the Internet under its scientific name to gather more information, other forum threads and comments on this fish with regards to multiple in the same aquarium.

Ninong has had experience with a few wrasses and he may know. I'll invite him to contribute here.

[wozza]

I have shared all I know about this. Sorry I can't answer that one.

no worries

You might want to search the Internet under its scientific name to gather more information, other forum threads and comments on this fish with regards to multiple in the same aquarium.

good thinkin'

Ninong has had experience with a few wrasses and he may know. I'll invite him to contribute here.

cool thanks lee

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by wozza

hi, im getting intreasted in keeping a/some Flasher Wrasse, Fairy Wrasse at the moment i am heading towards. Lineatus Fairy Wrasse - Cirrhilabrus lineatus
and or
Blue Flasher Fairy Wrasse - Paracheilinus cyaneus

i would like any info on there care, habbits or anything else you feel i should know.

Some vendors incorrectly call Paracheilinus cyaneus the Blue Flasher Fairy Wrasse. It's NOT a fairy wrasse! Only fish in the genus Cirrhilabrus are fairy wrasses. Fish in the genus Paracheilinus are flasher wrasses. I guess I'm a nitpicker for pointing out all the confusing misinformation propagated by the retailers and wholesalers in this hobby but I think it helps if we all try to catch them in their errors for the sake of reducing the amount of confusion they seem to thrive on.

All fairy wrasses and all flasher wrasses are zooplanktivores. In their natural habitats they feed continuously on tiny zooplankton.

All fairy wrasses and all flasher wrasses are prolific jumpers! They WILL jump. Anyone considering keeping one of these fish must be sure their tank is made jumper-proof in advance. If the tank is not jumper-proof, you will lose the fish. It's just a matter of time.

i would like to keep 2 of both, is this possible in my aquarium of my size?

I would say no. In my opinion, adding a pair of each would be a big mistake. Unfortunately, I attempted to add a pair of Cirrhilabrus scottorum and a pair of C. lineatus to my 120-gal reef aquarium after reading posts online that this would not be a problem. I can tell you from personal experience that it was a very big problem! In fact, it was by far the biggest mistake I ever made so far in this hobby concerning livestock.

I suspect that the larger C. lineatus would harass the smaller P. cyaneus in such a relatively small aquarium as yours. There is also the distinct possibility that the Pseudocheilinus hexataenia would harass at least the new flashers if not the new fairies. It all depends on the relative sizes of the fish in question.

P. hexataenia will definitely harass incoming fish that have similiar dietary habits. In fact, I have read reports online of this species eating the eyes out of Mandarin Dragonets (Synchiropus splendidus) to prevent them from feeding on the aquarium's supply of copepods.

My personal experience with C. scottorum and C. lineatus in a 120-gal tank convinces me that two different species of fairy wrasses in the same tank, unless it's larger than my 120-gal tank, can present problems that can take several months to resolve. In my experience, the Scott's fairy wrasse was more aggressive than the Lineatus fairy wrasse. The male Lineatus was killed by one of the Scott's.

My recommendation on fairy wrasses is that it is better to keep three or four of the same species in a tank (unless it's a really large tank) rather than mixing species. In spite of what the online vendors claim, I don't think a 65-gal tank is large enough for two or three fairy wrasses. These fish are active swimmers and I know that my 120-gal tank seemed a little too small for four of them at one time. I ended up with three of them (two Scott's and one Lineatus).

I think a 65-gal tank would be adequate for three of the flasher wrasses. The flasher wrasse you are considering is supposed to have a maximum adult size of 7cm (2.75"). According to fishbase, the Lineatus fairy wrasse has a maximum adult size of 12cm (4.72"). I know for a fact that the specimens from Australia can get to be 14cm (5.5"). Fishbase also gives a figure of 14cm (5.5") for the Scott's fairy wrasse. My Scott's were both 14cm (5.5") long. Both surviving Scott's were males. That's a long, complicated story! My surviving Lineatus was a female.

In summary, I think it would be risky to mix three different species of wrasses in a 65-gal tank. I also think that in general it is better to consider getting three of the same species rather than mixing species. This leads to the question of whether your tank is large enough to add three Lineatus fairy wrasses or whether three flasher wrasses would be a better choice. I think three flashers would work out better for your size tank.

The reason for adding three of a species at the same time rather than just two, is that it gives the dominant fish two inferiors to harass rather than just one. Even if you get all females, one of them will immediately try to dominate the other two. This process will take a minimum of about 10 days to resolve itself. Hopefully it won't be too messy.

It is EXTREMELY important that you NOT add more than one male!!! I can't emphasize this point too much! It is OK to add one male and two females or three females but do not under any circumstances add more than one male, especially in such a small tank. That would be a VERY serious mistake.

And remember that most retailers (online and brick and mortar) stock males. That's because the males are more colorful. You must make it VERY clear to the vendor, if you are buying online, that you will NOT accept more than one male. If you are buying your fish in person, you will have to make sure you can tell the difference between males and females. This is really quite easy with either fairy wrasses or flasher wrasses.

Good luck!



P.S. -- IME, fairy wrasses will eat just about anything you throw in the tank but they really should be fed small portions more often rather than once-a-day feedings. My Scott's wrasses even ate the marine algae that I put on clips for my Foxface Rabbitfish. The Lineatus wrasses didn't seem all that interested in the algae.

Both fairy wrasses and flasher wrasses should be fed a varied diet designed for carnivores. They will eat flake foods and the various frozen foods. When using pellet foods, choose the smallest sizes.

[dougc]

I'll echo Ninong's "fairy wrasses WILL jump" warning. I have a solarensis wrasse that I have heard bang into lights and covers at various times. Once, while I was cleaning the tank, the wrasse got spooked and jumped, flying over my shoulder and onto a nearby sofa. I had to pull out the cushions and scoop him up in my hand. He looked pretty funky after I dropped him back in the tank all covered with sofa lint.

My tank is completely covered, but I still worry about the wrasse getting stuck on top of a light fixture or the covers on the overflows.

[wozza]

Thanks for the great advice Ninong.
If i do go ahead and get some it will be 3 Paracheilinus cyaneus.
But im having a problem finding pics of male and female online.
this is what i have so far.

what do you think?


female?

female?

male?

male?



cheers james

[Ninong]

James,

All four of your pictures appear to be males to me. It would be nice if the fish in the top picture had its fins displayed but it appears to be a male anyway. There is no question whatsoever about the other three because they are all displaying. (P.S. -- I should probably add a caveat to my comments by saying that I'm really not sure about the coloration of the fish in the second picture. Whatever it is, it appears to be a male.)

In most species of flasher wrasses, the males have one or more elongated dorsal spines. The one obvious exception that I can think of offhand would be the Red Sea Eightline Flasher Wrasse (Paracheilinus octotaenia). Bob Fenner has a few pictures of P. cyaneus that he got from Dr. Tanaka but all are of males. I sold all of my books so I can't look it up in either Rudie Kuiter's book or Scott Michael's book but both of those sources contain examples of both males and females in all of the fairy and flasher species.

I did a Google image search under Paracheilinus cyaneus but all I got were a few photos and all males. You have to be careful when running Google image searches because fish are often misidentified. You have to know what you're looking for so that you can spot the misidentified photos.

Dr. Tanaka, a physician in Japan, is a leading authority on both flasher and fairy wrasses. He keeps dozens of species of both. He has contributed dozens of photographs of flasher and fairy wrasses to Reef Central's photo threads. There are several photo threads on fairy wrasses and one photo thread on flashers. Here is a link to the thread Dr. Tanaka started on Reef Central on flashers. There are several photos in that thread of P. cyaneus but unfortunately many of Dr. Tanaka's own photos are showing up as red X's now. Scroll down on the opening page to the post by heuerfan. He has pics of this fish along with some disturbing comments that apply to your situation. His sixline wrasse killed his P. cyaneus.

Here is a link to Dr. Tanaka's website. Unfortunately it is in Japanese. You can either use an online translation program, such as Alta Vista's babelfish, or you can do as I do and simply browse around looking for pictures of fish. The website contains sections on his medical clinic as well as his hobby.

The top photo that you posted came from The Marine Center in Dallas. If that is where you intend to purchase your fish, just make sure Randy knows that you want one male and two females. The Marine Center is one of the very best sources for flasher and fairy wrasses but also one of the more expensive. Their packaging methods are extremely good! They have access to a wide variety of fish, especially flasher and fairy wrasses. It is sometimes hard to reach them by email, so phoning is less frustrating.

P.S. -- I think I probably should have said that in most flasher wrasse species the males have longer elongated dorsal fin rays than the females. In some species, females may have elongated dorsal fin rays but the males always have longer rays.

P. cyaneus appears to be a newly described species. Looks like it was described in 1999. It attains a maximum length of 7cm (2.75"). Its distribution is Derawan and north and east central Sulawesi, Indonesia. It is found at depths of 20 to 80 feet. Distinguishing characteristics: This species has a lunate caudal fin, elongate dorsal fin rays, while the body is pink in males. When males display, the back becomes iridescent blue.

[Ninong]

James,

Check out the photos of the Carpenter's wrasse on this page of that Reef Central thread. Scroll down to the post by Scottkelly911.

That's a species that is readily available just about anywhere and it's a lot cheaper than Cyaneus.

P.S. -- I didn't notice that Dr. Tanaka posted that some of the photos on that page may not be of P. carpenteri after all. Oh, well...

I ran a Google image search on the genus Paracheilinus here. Lots of photos to check out, including some more of Cyaneus. Just remember that some of them may be misidentified.

[Ninong]

German website's wrasse photos here.

Another wrasse library here.

[Ninong]

Another website:

It is really difficult searching under "Hiroyuki Tanaka" online because his name is quite common in Japan. Here is a site with 291 of his photos.

[wozza]

Great Ninong thank for all the links and help, i am starting to like the Carpenter's wrasse more as well actully and i know of a web site that sells them pretty cheep.
But as for my six line wrasse, well he will be outta the tank if i get them, not risking him eating there eyes or bulling them to death, the git.

Dr Tanaka's seems to almost reckomend keeping only males to make them flash more what do you make of this?

cheers james

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by wozza

Great Ninong thank for all the links and help, i am starting to like the Carpenter's wrasse more as well actully and i know of a web site that sells them pretty cheep.

I just realized you're in the U.K., so all of those American online vendors are out of the question for you.

Are you talking about an online vendor in the U.K.? What about any LFS in your area?

But as for my six line wrasse, well he will be outta the tank if i get them, not risking him eating there eyes or bulling them to death, the git.

The reason the sixline wrasse ate the eyes out of that Mandarin Dragonet was because Mandarins exude a noxious slime on their scaleless bodies as a defensive mechanism, so I guess the only spot without this noxious slime was the eyes? And taking out the eyes eliminates the fish as a competitor because it can't find any food (copepods).

Dr Tanaka's seems to almost reckomend keeping only males to make them flash more what do you make of this?

I don't recall seeing that sort of a comment by Dr. Tanaka. You would have to cut and paste his exact comment in context.

Don't forget the size of your tank (small) compared to the size of the tanks that are owned by many of those guys who are posting pictures of their several different species of fairy and flasher wrasses (especially the ones who are posting to the several fairy wrasse threads). Many of those tanks are in the 300-gal range.

I have no experience with flasher wrasses but I can tell you from experience that keeping more than one male fairy wrasse (genus Cirrhilabrus) in a relatively small (120-gal) tank is a difficult and very stressful enterprise. Stressful on both me and the fish!

[wozza]

here is his full quote.

You may have a chance to see a male's flashing when kept together with other males more than that with a female (pair).

I recommend you to keep (buy) males as many as poosible at the same time; it does not matter whether or nor they are the same species. They display gorgeously while they are threatening ! But remember, they may fight each other and may cause a serious damage on some individuals. Keep your eyes on them the first three to four days.

I can tell you from experience that keeping more than one male fairy wrasse (genus Cirrhilabrus) in a relatively small (120-gal) tank is a difficult and very stressful enterprise. Stressful on both me and the fish!

thats what i thought

Are you talking about an online vendor in the U.K.? What about any LFS in your area?

yeah its an online vendor, i have one half good LFS near me actually there fish are allways amazing quality i belive they get them from TMC, but they get a bit pissy with me because i dont listen to what they try and tell me because i know a dam site more then them.

james

[Ninong]

Dr. Tanaka's comments on flasher wrasses:

"You may have a chance to see a male's flashing when kept together with other males more than that with a female (pair).

"I recommend you to keep (buy) males as many as possible at the same time; it does not matter whether or nor they are the same species. They display gorgeously while they are threatening ! But remember, they may fight each other and may cause a serious damage on some individuals. Keep your eyes on them the first three to four days."

[wozza]

yeah i thats cool just wanted to make sure i wasnt misunderstanding anything.
1 male 2-3 females and no sixline.
sounds like we got it cracked .

cheers james

[wozza]

now all i gotta do is find pics of a female Carpenter's wrasse.