[jkeithh1969]

Is it possible to keep a 4 to 5" juvenile emperor angel in a 90 gallon? I would plan on getting a larger tank once it grew or should I just wait until I can get a bigger tank to start it out with? If it is possible would it bother the anemone? I keep reading that they won't bother the SPS corals I have.

[leebca]

Thanks for posting!

You are in a 'grey area' when it comes to large Angelfishes. You have the right idea in that they require much larger aquariums/display tanks, than most people realize.

If it is a 'standard' 90 gallon tank, then I am assuming it's dimensions are something like:
48.5 x 18.5 x 25.5

For that Angel, at that size, I would not like to see it in any tank less than 72 inches long. It may be only another 10 gallons, but the 100 gallon long with dimensions of: 72.5 x 18.5 x 19.5 is much better. This fish needs the extra 'distance' to 'think' it's in a bigger place.

Since ideally the large Angelfishes should not be in anything other than a 180 or larger (240 or 96 inches long, would be the best minimum) and you want to begin with the fish fairly large, I would recommend you get the larger aquarium first, make sure it is matured, then let the Angelfish settle in its home for life!

Large Angelfish are unpredictable. In a reef home aquarium they will often get bored and pick on anything that 'might' be food. All polyps are in danger to some extent, making this Angelfish best suited to a FO or FOWLR aquarium. They are often difficult to keep captive for very long, not acclimating to captivity very well. However, if you have the patience, a properly mature aquarium, and enough knowledge/experience, it is a fine pet.

Unfortunately, I've known several aquarists who have 'gone through' several of these fishes before realizing they don't have what it takes to keep one healthy for an extended lifespan.

[jkeithh1969]

That is what I was afraid of. I picked the 4 to 5 inch juvenile size because I had read on several sites that was the best size for acclimating to aquarium life. These sites also stated that you should try to get them from Australia, the Indian Ocean or the Red Sea as they are captured and handled very well during export as opposed to other areas where it is more likely that they were captured using cyanide.

[jkeithh1969]

Are there any of the larger angels I could do in the 90 for a while?

[leebca]

I don't get to write this often, so pardon me for enjoying this when I write:

You were given good advice.

The juveniles and those in transition do adapt to aquarium/captive life the best. The very young ones are, I think, the easiest of all marine fishes. They are inquisitive, more bold, haven't gotten the adult 'cautious behavior' pattern yet, and still are 'intelligent' somehow. They are easy to get to feed when in the quarantine process.

The 90 would be good if you wanted to keep a small juvenile of any of the large Angelfishes. It should be under 2.5 inches. It will grow to its adult pattern and coloration in captivity, but only if provided top notch nutrition, environment, and care. At 3.5 inches or over it needs the long aquarium.

For the 90 I'd stay with a dwarf Angelfish if Angels are your favs.

[jkeithh1969]

Unfortunately, the dwarf angels really aren't mything...other than the Flames which I have one already but it is small. Would a juvie emperor and a juvie flame get along ok or would they fight? I am prepared to do whatever I would have to do to keep an emperor in the 90 for a while. I have easy access to fresh seafood, I have a LFS that carries all of the frozen angel foods, I will even do multiple water changes per week instead of the one I do a week now I even bought a UV sterilizer in the event I ever was able to get one. I am also prepared in a few months time to get a bigger tank if I need to which actually will be the only way I will be able to get a bigger tank. I had to fight very hard with my roommates to get the 90, but I know once they saw an emperor they would have no problem with me getting an even larger tank...they just have never seen how beautiful and majestic they are in person. One of my LFS has one for sale but it is already pretty large and doesn't look that great...faded color...cloudy eyes so I would never get it....plus they have it in a 20 gallon tank and it is already in full adult coloration..that is how big it is. It just ticks me off to no end to see a fish that big stuffed (literally) into a tank that small but I know even though my tank is a lot larger (which I would be almost as guilty putting it into a 90 as they are in a 20) that with the problems it is having that I probably couldn't save it even though it eats very well.

[jkeithh1969]

Plus I would rather have a smaller one and watch the color transformation.

[leebca]

Keep in mind that the 'transition' could take years. I'm not sure you'd still have roommates that long.

I've had many Flame Angels. They react differently. The Flame Angel should get along with a true, small/juvenile Emperor. There are personality exceptions that can't be accounted for. The preferred sequence would be to add the Flame Angel after the juvenile Angelfish acclimated.

I know you're tight for space and 'support' but you should consider the 90 a good quarantine tank for the adult Angelfishes, sub-adult and adult Tangs, etc. In any event, you want to setup and use a quarantine tank for your next addition. Some refs on that:
An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
and
A Fish Quarantine Process

Good idea to pass up on the LFS fish you described. Don't buy on emotion. Unfortunately, fishes are a commodity. They are treated more as a product than a pet or life form. See this for just the tip of the 'iceberg:' Tang flatworm curse?

[jkeithh1969]

That store also constantly keeps copper in their fish tanks so I don't buy fish from them anyway. It seems that locally you have to shop at several different LFS to get what you need. One may have good inverts but their fish are terrible, another may have good fish but their inverts are terrible, another might be where you get all of your dry goods. It just seems like I spend half my time driving all over the place trying to make the best purchases. Also, in my 90 gallon semi reef tank, I didn't fill it "to the brim" with live rock...I wanted to leave plenty of space for my fish (whatever I determined I wanted) to swim. I put about 60# in the tank and a lot more in the sump and the refugium so I could still take advantage of the filtration capabilities of live rock but still leave plenty of swimming room. Does that make sense or should I have worried less about having swimming room?

Also, I am not one to make rash purchases...I learned my lesson a long time ago about doing that. I also keep several tanks stored in my garage for quarantine. When I know I am going to be getting a fish, I put a deposit down for the store to hold it, I get my quarantine tank going with sponge filters (luckily I bought a lot of those years ago when I kept discus) so I always keep one going in my nano tank so it will have the bacteria on it. The one thing I still don't quite understand and am afraid to do is the freshwater dip.

[jkeithh1969]

Never mind the thing about the freshwater dip....I just found your thread about how to do it.

[leebca]

You have impressed me (in a positive way) and I'm not easily impressed. You are a careful and thoughtful and doing what is very challenging and hard for most aquarists to do = being patient. Congratulations

The copper-in-the-system store doesn't mean they are to be avoided. Just so the aquarist is aware of what they're getting when buying from such a store. A good quarantine process is quite able to handle many issues.

Post any questions you might have here on Reefland and I and/or others will try to help.

Good luck to you!

[jkeithh1969]

Well, I thank you for being so patient with all of my questions. I have to tell you, I wasn't always patient. Over the past 20 years I have learned to be patient. A lot less heartache and wasted money. I find that the more I read on here the more I learn and the more it convinces me that I am right in being patient. I know people that aren't and I just chalk it up to the fact that they got lucky. I just choose not to chance it. I am too much of an animal lover and it kills me when something I have done causes an animal to die...it's a case of "if I couldn't take care of it, it should have been left in the ocean" sort of mentality that I have. I even feel guilty now about having an anemone after reading how it totally destroys an area of the reef when one is removed. The fact it takes a long time for the anemones to repopulate an area and the fact it really disrupts the clownfish population when we take so many anemones from the ocean. I think reading "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" should be REQUIRED reading for everyone before they get into saltwater aquariums. It is truly an amazing and eye-opening book.

Anyway, I will get off my soapbox.

[jkeithh1969]

It's here. Acclimating it to the QT tank now. I'll post pictures of it after the QT is over and it is in the 90 gallon. Just looking at it in the bag all I can say is WOW! Marinedepolive.com did an excellent job of packaging. They have very detailed acclimation procedures included with it as well. Definitely gets a thumbs up. I just hope I can do it justice. Lee, your QT and acclimation procedures are lengthy but it is going to be so worth it in about 6 weeks.

[jkeithh1969]

I am using your QT and freshwater dip procedures with their acclimation procedures. I'll let you know how that works.