phosphate help

[fergo]

Hi all,

Well i have already discussed this to some point, a while ago. My phosphate is way too high, according to my hagen kit it is very high 5.0. Im not sure how accurate this test is as i have read about how hard it is to test this? I have added double the amount of rowaphos needed for my tank and nothing happened to the reading.

Now what i need to know is how to pull this down, feeding is not an issue as if you have read my other posts most of my fish died with an bacteria outbreak leaving me with one checkerboard wrasse.

I have a 103 Gallon tank with sump, i bought this sump complete second hand and i think 1 issue might be my skimmer, dont know what brand it is or anything? would ineffective skimming be a reason for the high levels.

My amonia, nitrite, nitrate are perfect PH is 8.2.

please help the LFS stores in australia just keep trying to sell me differnt rowaphos equivilants.

What else can be done to pull this down?

[leebca]

I am not convinced you have a phosphate problem, yet.

I would first suggest you make sure what your phosphate reading is. Get a new test kit, preferably get a test kit for phosphate made by Salifert, if those brands are available to you. I want to be sure that the reading you're getting is the true reading.

I wouldn't buy anything until you do the above. After you have done the above, we can further help you out, IF the phosphates are that high.

Many LFSs provide a service to test water. Go to an LFS that hasn't heard you have a phosphate problem and also have them confirm the number you get from a new test kit. If their analysis is different from your own, you need to figure out if you are performing the test incorrectly or the LFS is performing the test incorrectly. That is -- your test results should be very close.

What are you using for source water? You should read this: WATER - Source and NSW

I also want you to test your source water for phosphate using the new test kit.

Until the matter of what your phosphate level is truly at, let's not go any further, okay? When you get the above information, post again and we'll go forward. We're here to help!

[fergo]

Ok, got my water tested at the LFS and it read high, the same as my test kit at home. approxamatly 5ppm phosphate. (i use a hagen test kit and LFS used salifert)

i tested my water source and it did not register a reading.

I also tested a fresh batch of mixed salt water and it also read nothing for phosphates.

i thought maybe the left over live food in the tank (from my late lionfish sob sob) might have been some cause so i have released them back into the wild.

but it has only been 1 day since then.

[leebca]

The phosphate reading is about 100 times more than you'd like to have.

You have eliminated the basics, now you can go forward and look for more phosphate sources.

Read the ingredients of the foods you put into the tank. Do they list phosphorus or phosphate?

List everything you add to the aquarium, other than water changes. Can you post that list to this thread? Are you using carbon? Some activated carbons actually release phosphates into the water. Are you using any chemical filtration?

Please give us your actual nitrate level/reading.

How much live rock do you have in the aquarium? Pounds?

Verify that the skimmer is working properly. Get it up and running properly.

Do you see any 'dirt' in the aquarium? That is, detritus?

Lastly, what are you using for a substrate. What is it made out of?

[fergo]

Ok i feed two types of food, OSI Ocean Stars marine pellets, which listed nothing on the back like phosphate or phosphorus. and TetraMarine Saltwater flakes which does list a few types of phosphates?

So i guess that is what it isit says under guaranteed analysis min phosphorus 1.2% and under ingredients it says many different types of phospahte such as riboflavin-5-phosphate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate? Have we found the culprite?

other than water changes i add nothing else. I dont use carbon in my tank. and i only use a powerhead and my trickle filter.

Nitrate reads as 0.0

I have about 150 pounds of live rock (thanks to a mate)

Now skimmer working? how do you tell if its working? it creasts foarm and a dark liquid a bit sloppy collects in the container.

I dont see much detritus in the tank a little here and there. but nothing large or i would siphone it out.

Substrate is coral sand about 1 to 2 inch thick.

[leebca]

I'd say the likely source is the food. But don't be too quick in blaming just the flake. Pellet food often contains a lot of phosphorous compounds. In addition, pellet foods often use wheat or wheat products to act as binding agents. Our marine life should not eat wheat, gluten, or other land products.

The two foods are probably the lowest on the 'desired foods list' for marine fishes. I know this is a long post, but if you will read it, follow it, and print out the attached chart, I think you'll find it explains the above and much, much more.

Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

Sorry it took so long to get to the answer. But you have thoroughly covered possible sources, as far as I can see, and have gotten the right answer. A shift to better foods and feeds, and the removal of the live foods, should cause a drop in phosphates.

[fergo]

question.

I went back to the LFS where i got the food that was phosphate culprite (who also sold me rowaphos).

Now he said that all foods have phosphate in it and basically the ash content of food is phosphate.

how do people feel about that responce? i dont beleive him as he said the food would not be the reason for my high phosphate but its the only thing left really. and since changing to better food (thanks for the link wheich i read intently). the phosphate seems to be comming down after only 2 days.

[leebca]

The 'average' LFS is faced with having to do business and having only certain products available to sell.

. . .all foods have phosphate. . .

Actually this is almost true. Our marine life needs phosphorous to promote proper health and growth. This phosphorous needs to come to the plant or animal in a form that can be utilized as a nutrient. For plants, they prefer phosphates; for animals, there are other complexed phosphorous compounds tied to proteins and organics.

Thus foods for marine plants should be high in phosphates and nitrates; food for marine fishes should be low in phosphates, but still contain phosphorous.

What we/you measure with your test kit is what? Phosphate or phosphorous?

ash content of food is phosphate

I can't defend this one. Maybe the LFS is thinking of "Potash" which is a potassium compound? Otherwise, I've never heard this one before.

Still, I think you're catching on. If the LFS began by saying that the food was not a source of phosphates and now claims it is a source. . .what is it you're supposed to believe from this LFS in the future?