[RobHimself]

Well Hi everyone! I'm new here and this is my first post. Pretty cool site. Tons of info. Anyway, I'm starting a saltwater tank and I wanted to know if these fish/inverts are compatible. Any/all info on them is greatly appreciated.

False Black Percula Clown, Midas Blenny, Black Sailfin Algae Blenny, Dragon Goby(or Sleeper Banded Goby), 2 Scooter Blennies, Red Spotted Hawkfish, Lizard Blenny, Green or Bi-Color Chromis, Bangaii Cardinal, Tiger Jawfish, and a possible Leaf Scorpionfish.
Inverts: Arrow Crab, Pencil Urhin and Black Urchin, Purple Lobster, Porcelian Crab, some Sand-Sifting Crabs, Sally Light Foot crab, and a Coral Banded Shrimp.
Any info on these guys would be great. Thanks!

[Poseidon]

Hi Rob,


What size tank are you talking about? With all those blennies and gobies you will need a VERY large tank, over 220 to be sure.

[Poseidon]

The more I read your post, the more I think you need to go back and do more research... That scorpion fish will EAT whatever fits in its mouth, and the gobies would be easy prey. Not only that all the inverts you mention will need a substantial sand bed, or they will also prey on fish. (Especially the Arrow Crab and CB Shrimp.)

Also, how are you going to support so many fish that depend on pods for their main diet?

I don't want to come off as rude, but this is a bad plan, especially for a beginner.

[Ninong]

Hi RobHimself,

Originally Posted by RobHimself

Anyway, I'm starting a saltwater tank and I wanted to know if these fish/inverts are compatible. Any/all info on them is greatly appreciated.

I'm just going to give you some general comments about a few of the fish to get you started. You will have to do a lot more research before making any definitive choices but this should get you started. I'll give you the correct scientific name (assuming I can figure out which fish you're asking about) and you can google that to find more information. You don't say what size tank you're planning, so I'll just assume that it is at least 75 gallons.

False Black Percula Clown

False Percula Clown is one of the common names used for Amphiprion ocellaris. The black color morph of this species is found naturally in the waters off the coast of Darwin, Australia. It is no different than any other Ocellaris clowns except for the coloration. This is a peaceful fish. It won't bother anything. Get a mated pair or get two juveniles so that you will end up with a mated pair. These fish are protandrous hermaphrodites.

Midas Blenny, Black Sailfin Algae Blenny, Dragon Goby(or Sleeper Banded Goby), 2 Scooter Blennies, Red Spotted Hawkfish, Lizard Blenny, Green or Bi-Color Chromis, Bangaii Cardinal, Tiger Jawfish, and a possible Leaf Scorpionfish.

Midas blenny (Ecsenius midas) -- nice, peaceful fish.

Black sailfin algae blenny (Atrosalarias fuscus) -- I'm not familiar with this particular species. The one that is most commonly sold is Salarias fasciatus, commonly called the lawnmower blenny. These are fine but some people have problems with getting them to eat if there is not enough algae available in the tank.

Green chromis (Chromis viridis) -- nice, peaceful, inexpensive fish that is easy to keep. Most people like to keep these in small groups (or large groups if they have a really big tank).

Bicolor chromis (Chromis margaritifer) -- I'm not familiar with this species.

Scooter blennies -- Get just one of these unless you're planning a really large tank. For starters, none of the so-called scooter blennies are actually blennies. There are at least six to eight different species that are sold under the common name "scooter blenny" and none are blennies -- most are dragonets. Synchiropus ocellatus and S. stellatus are the two species that are most commonly available and sold under the name "scooter blenny." Both are dragonets and like all dragonets require a lot of live rock loaded with copepods. You shouldn't keep more than one of these guys unless your tank is really big (at least 180 gallons). These fish do best in reef tanks, not fish-only tanks.

Hawkfish -- All hawkfish can be aggressive to a certain extent. You should do a little more research on these guys to make sure you want one. They will limit your other choices, especially if this is going to be a reef tank.

Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) -- A pair would be nice. Make sure you don't get two males. These fish are readily available as captive-bred. Reproduction in captivity is fairly easy. The males are mouth-brooders.

Leaf scorpionfish (Taenionotus triacanthus) -- Not suitable for a reef tank and not suitable for a tank with small fish. Even though this is a relatively small scorpionfish, it will "inhale" anything small enough to fit into it's rather large mouth. Unlike their lionfish relatives, these guys don't go stalking, they just sit around and wait for food to pass close enough to their mouth and then they just vacuum it in. Don't forget that their spines are venomous, so be extremely careful in handling. If you want to keep one of these guys, you will have to choose everything else according to whether it is compatible with your scorpionfish or not.

Inverts: Arrow Crab, Pencil Urhin and Black Urchin, Purple Lobster, Porcelian Crab, some Sand-Sifting Crabs, Sally Light Foot crab, and a Coral Banded Shrimp.
Any info on these guys would be great. Thanks!

I'm not a big fan of crabs in reef tanks and most people don't put crabs in fish-only tanks because usually they keep fish that might eat the crabs. Arrow crabs are not safe for a lot of reasons but I guess some people are buying them or they wouldn't be imported. I wouldn't go with any of these guys. Urchins -- you have to like urchins. I'm not all that fond of urchins to begin with. Don't forget that they will eat your coralline algae.

Purple lobster -- definitely not a good choice for most tanks. Predatory! Should be kept in dedicated tanks. If you go with a purple lobster, you will have to be extremely careful with your other selections. Anything that the purple lobster doesn't kill is probably a good bet to kill the purple lobster. If it's big enough and bad enough that a purple lobster is not a threat, then it may be big enough and bad enough to kill the lobster.

Sally lightfoot crabs -- Again, I'm just not a big fan of crabs.

Coral banded shrimp (Stenopus hispidus) -- One of the most aggressive shrimp species. Can sometimes be a problem with small fish. These guys are not hermaphroditic like the Lysmata shrimp, so you have to be very careful if you get two of them that you don't get two males. If you can't get a mated pair, then get only one.

[Ninong]

I still don't know the size of your tank but I learned from another of your posts that you're setting up a reef tank and you already have fine sand as a substrate. You were asking about yellow-headed jawfish in a thread from six years ago that you just posted to. It would be better to just start a new thread instead of adding to one that is that old.

In any case, I now know that it's going to be a reef tank so I'll move this thread to the Reef Aquarium section.

To answer your questions on the yellow-headed jawfish (Opistognathus aurifons), it requires a sand bed of at least 3" depth. It should be mostly fine particle sand but there should be enough bits of shell and other larger pieces that it can reinforce it's burrow. I would not use crushed coral for this purpose.

You don't say how deep your present sand bed is??? Ideally, it should be about 4" deep if you want to keep jawfish. And instead of all fine particle sand, it should include some larger stuff. Maybe 10% of the larger stuff would be enough. I've never kept jawfish.

Oh, don't forget that these guys are jumpers!

[RobHimself]

In any case, I now know that it's going to be a reef tank so I'll move this thread to the Reef Aquarium section.
You don't say how deep your present sand bed is???

I don't think it is a Reef Tank or will be actually. I want some fish and a few crabs. I've got a good amount of live rock and a 3" live sand bed.

Originally Posted by Ninong

False Percula Clown is one of the common names used for Amphiprion ocellaris. The black color morph of this species is found naturally in the waters off the coast of Darwin, Australia. It is no different than any other Ocellaris clowns except for the coloration. This is a peaceful fish. It won't bother anything. Get a mated pair or get two juveniles so that you will end up with a mated pair. These fish are protandrous hermaphrodites.


Midas blenny (Ecsenius midas) -- nice, peaceful fish.

Black sailfin algae blenny (Atrosalarias fuscus) -- I'm not familiar with this particular species. The one that is most commonly sold is Salarias fasciatus, commonly called the lawnmower blenny. These are fine but some people have problems with getting them to eat if there is not enough algae available in the tank.

It's very identical to a Lawnmower Blenny only it's black. I think that's the only difference.

Green chromis (Chromis viridis) -- nice, peaceful, inexpensive fish that is easy to keep. Most people like to keep these in small groups (or large groups if they have a really big tank).

Do these fish need to be in groups? I've heard that they do better in groups but eventually one bigger one takes over all the others. Which is better: to get a few or just one?

Bicolor chromis (Chromis margaritifer) -- I'm not familiar with this species.

They're the same as a Green Chromis I think but they black from head to middle and white from middle to back.

If I need to get a group of Chromis's can I mix the Bi-Color and Green? Say two each. If not I'm only going to get one Bi-Color.

Scooter blennies -- Get just one of these unless you're planning a really large tank. For starters, none of the so-called scooter blennies are actually blennies. There are at least six to eight different species that are sold under the common name "scooter blenny" and none are blennies -- most are dragonets. Synchiropus ocellatus and S. stellatus are the two species that are most commonly available and sold under the name "scooter blenny." Both are dragonets and like all dragonets require a lot of live rock loaded with copepods. You shouldn't keep more than one of these guys unless your tank is really big (at least 180 gallons). These fish do best in reef tanks, not fish-only tanks.

I knew they were called Scooter Dragonets. It's the regular one. I called it a Blenny because that's the common name that more people know. Anyway, I'll probably only get one since my tank is 75 gallons.

Hawkfish -- All hawkfish can be aggressive to a certain extent. You should do a little more research on these guys to make sure you want one. They will limit your other choices, especially if this is going to be a reef tank

I've heard that the Red Spotted Hawkfish is Reef Safe except for the fact that they will eat very small ornamental shrimps (like Sexy Shrimp or possibly a small Cleaner Shrimp) so I'm probably going to get one.

This isn't going to be a Reef Tank as far as I know. I have a lot of Live Rock and 3 inches of live sand. (I'll be adding some more not fine substrate soon for the Jawfish but only to make it a good 4 inches.)

Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) -- A pair would be nice. Make sure you don't get two males. These fish are readily available as captive-bred. Reproduction in captivity is fairly easy. The males are mouth-brooders.

Do I need a pair??

Leaf scorpionfish (Taenionotus triacanthus) -- Not suitable for a reef tank and not suitable for a tank with small fish. Even though this is a relatively small scorpionfish, it will "inhale" anything small enough to fit into it's rather large mouth. Unlike their lionfish relatives, these guys don't go stalking, they just sit around and wait for food to pass close enough to their mouth and then they just vacuum it in. Don't forget that their spines are venomous, so be extremely careful in handling. If you want to keep one of these guys, you will have to choose everything else according to whether it is compatible with your scorpionfish or not.

I was just at my LFS yesterday and heard the same thing. I've decided not to get one.

I'm not a big fan of crabs in reef tanks and most people don't put crabs in fish-only tanks because usually they keep fish that might eat the crabs.

Well, I don't think what I'm going to have would be considered a Reef Tank. It's just fish and a few crabs. Tons of Live Rock and Live Sand. That's about it. I don't think any of the fish I listed will eat crabs readily.

Arrow crabs are not safe for a lot of reasons but I guess some people are buying them or they wouldn't be imported. I wouldn't go with any of these guys.

I heard about some of the things they do. I wouldn't like one anymore since I'm going to have inverts. All of which he'll attack and eat.

Urchins -- you have to like urchins. I'm not all that fond of urchins to begin with. Don't forget that they will eat your coralline algae.

What is coralline algae? Do I want it? Is it bad?
I liked the Urchins because I heard they eat some bad algae and they're excellent scavengers which is also a plus.

Purple lobster -- definitely not a good choice for most tanks. Predatory! Should be kept in dedicated tanks. If you go with a purple lobster, you will have to be extremely careful with your other selections. Anything that the purple lobster doesn't kill is probably a good bet to kill the purple lobster. If it's big enough and bad enough that a purple lobster is not a threat, then it may be big enough and bad enough to kill the lobster.

I've heard quite the contrary on the lobsters. I read that they are Reef Safe and hardly bother any thing (other than other lobsters) except for something that picks at them.

Sally lightfoot crabs -- Again, I'm just not a big fan of crabs.

I'm not too sure I like these guys either anymore. They seem to have the same aggressive nature as the Arrow Crabs and they'll basically kill every other crustacean in the tank.

Coral banded shrimp (Stenopus hispidus) -- One of the most aggressive shrimp species. Can sometimes be a problem with small fish. These guys are not hermaphroditic like the Lysmata shrimp, so you have to be very careful if you get two of them that you don't get two males. If you can't get a mated pair, then get only one.

Aw man. The CBS was absolutely my favorite invert. Will one be able to eat any of the fish I want or be aggressive towards anything else? Is it possible to get one or no?



In conclusion, I have a 75 gallon tank. A good amount of live rock and 3" of live sand.

The fish I would like to get in the future include: a Black Percula Clown, a Bangaii Cardinal (maybe 2), a Midas Blenny, one Scooter Dragonet, a Red Spotted Hawkfish, a Green or Bi-Color Chromis (maybe a group, maybe just one), and a Tiger Jawfish.

I wasn't given any info on these guys but I also want them. A Dragon Goby and a Lizard Blenny.

I was also curious to see what anyone knows about a Springeri Pseudochromis, a Flounder, and/or a Yellow Tail Fang Blenny. Any compatibility in my tank? Let me know!


Future inverts: Long Black Spined Urchin, an Emerald Crab (or two), a Porcelain Crab (or two), a Red Crab (or two), a large amount of Sand-Sifting Crabs (also called Flea Crabs), and a possible Purple or Red Lobster (provided they will not kill everything). More than likely I will get a Coral Banded Shrimp, if they're not too aggressive and can get along in my tank.

Does everything check out?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by RobHimself

I don't think it is a Reef Tank or will be actually. I want some fish and a few crabs. I've got a good amount of live rock and a 3" live sand bed.

OK, I'll move your thread back to the original forum.

It's very identical to a Lawnmower Blenny only it's black. I think that's the only difference.

Well, it's different enough that it's in a different genus. I'm more familiar with the regular lawnmower blenny, Salarias fasciatus.

Do these fish need to be in groups? I've heard that they do better in groups but eventually one bigger one takes over all the others. Which is better: to get a few or just one?

You can get just one if you want. I think Chromis spp. look better in groups but that's up to you.

If I need to get a group of Chromis's can I mix the Bi-Color and Green? Say two each. If not I'm only going to get one Bi-Color.

For a 75-gal tank, maybe you would be better off with just one Chromis so that you won't reduce your other possibilities too much. If you were to get five Chromis, then you wouldn't be able to get as many other fish.

I knew they were called Scooter Dragonets. It's the regular one. I called it a Blenny because that's the common name that more people know. Anyway, I'll probably only get one since my tank is 75 gallons.

One is definitely more than enough for a 75-gal tank. I like the Starry Dragonet, S. stellatus.

Do I need a pair??

No, you don't need a pair. You could get just one Banggai cardinal.

What is coralline algae?

Coralline algae is an encrusting calcareous algae that covers live rock. The most common species are purple in color. Most people like having coralline algae on their live rock. It's definitely not bad.

I liked the Urchins because I heard they eat some bad algae and they're excellent scavengers which is also a plus.

Urchins are fine if you like urchins. I'm just now really into urchins, especially for reef tanks because they are clumsy. Some urchins may scratch acrylic tanks so you may want to consider that if your tank is acrylic. If it's glass, then that's not an issue.

I've heard quite the contrary on the lobsters. I read that they are Reef Safe and hardly bother any thing (other than other lobsters) except for something that picks at them.

Well, I disagree with what you have heard about purple lobsters. I believe these guys can and will eat small fish and anything else they can catch. I wouldn't include them in a tank with small fish.

The CBS was absolutely my favorite invert. Will one be able to eat any of the fish I want or be aggressive towards anything else? Is it possible to get one or no?

Yes, it's certainly possible to keep just one coral banded shrimp. Go ahead and get one if you want one. I'm just saying that they are aggressive, as far as shrimp go, and they have been known to cause problems for small, bottom-dwelling fish.

The fish I would like to get in the future include: a Black Percula Clown,...

I think clownfish should always be kept in pairs. I just don't see any good reason for having one clownfish. Just get two juveniles of the same species and you will have a pair. In your opening post, you said "False Black Percula Clown." That's Amphiprion ocellaris. Now you're saying "Black Percula Clown." That's A. percula. Two different species. There are some black perculas available but not many. They're usually called "Black Onyx" clowns. Most of the black "perculas" on the market are black Ocellaris clowns. The Ocellaris clownfish is often called the False Percula Clownfish to distinguish it from the Percula Clownfish (A. percula). Just get two juveniles of the same species, either A. percula or A. ocellaris.

I was also curious to see what anyone knows about a Springeri Pseudochromis, a Flounder, and/or a Yellow Tail Fang Blenny. Any compatibility in my tank? Let me know!

No fang blennies! Scratch that off the list. The only Pseudochromis I would get for a 75-gal tank would be an Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani). That's one of my favorites. The other dottybacks are too aggressive, especially for a 75-gal tank. Flounders are out! Too aggressive.



P.S. -- Attached photo of coralline algae (the purple/lavender stuff on the live rocks):

[Ninong]

Getting back to the purple reef lobster (Enoplometopus daumi), according to Robert Fenner: "All Lobsters trend toward omnivorism... eating everything in their path with age/growth... all specimens over about four inches in length are unsuitable for anything other than rough and tumble systems of size."

This species has a maximum size of 5-6 inches. According to many online vendors, it is supposedly reef-safe. I don't believe that for one minute. I have read several posts from hobbyists who tried these and reported that they attacked small fish at night.

[RobHimself]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Well, it's different enough that it's in a different genus. I'm more familiar with the regular lawnmower blenny, Salarias fasciatus.

Well here's the fish I was looking at if it rings a bell to see it. It says they're in close relation to the Lawnmower Blenny. I haven't really looked into it though. I will when my tank builds up some algae.
Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Black Sailfin Blenny

Coralline algae is an encrusting calcareous algae that covers live rock. The most common species are purple in color. Most people like having coralline algae on their live rock. It's definitely not bad.

Ahh! Of Course! I knew that. I wasn't sure of the name though. Thanks for that!

Well, I disagree with what you have heard about purple lobsters. I believe these guys can and will eat small fish and anything else they can catch. I wouldn't include them in a tank with small fish.

Getting back to the purple reef lobster (Enoplometopus daumi), according to Robert Fenner: "All Lobsters trend toward omnivorism... eating everything in their path with age/growth... all specimens over about four inches in length are unsuitable for anything other than rough and tumble systems of size."

This species has a maximum size of 5-6 inches. According to many online vendors, it is supposedly reef-safe. I don't believe that for one minute. I have read several posts from hobbyists who tried these and reported that they attacked small fish at night.

Hmm. I'll look into it. Maybe one that's only an inch or twoand then get rid of it when it's too big but I highly doubt I'll end up doing that. For now I probably won't get one though. Thanks for that little info. Bob Fenner is a very smart guy. I'm pretty sure he's right!

Yes, it's certainly possible to keep just one coral banded shrimp. Go ahead and get one if you want one. I'm just saying that they are aggressive, as far as shrimp go, and they have been known to cause problems for small, bottom-dwelling fish.

Oh! That's great then. Would they be a harm to the bottom dwellers I listed earlier? (Scooter Dragonets, Lizard Blenny, Dragon Goby, Red Spotted Hawkfish, and a Tiger Jawfish)

I think clownfish should always be kept in pairs. I just don't see any good reason for having one clownfish. Just get two juveniles of the same species and you will have a pair. In your opening post, you said "False Black Percula Clown." That's Amphiprion ocellaris. Now you're saying "Black Percula Clown." That's A. percula. Two different species. There are some black perculas available but not many. They're usually called "Black Onyx" clowns. Most of the black "perculas" on the market are black Ocellaris clowns. The Ocellaris clownfish is often called the False Percula Clownfish to distinguish it from the Percula Clownfish (A. percula). Just get two juveniles of the same species, either A. percula or A. ocellaris.

I'll most likely get two then. (They're kind of expensive though! )
I'm not sure which one I was looking at... If both species are the same temperament I'll decide when I see them I guess

Flounders are out! Too aggressive.

Flounders are aggressive?! I never would have guessed! They seem so peaceful. Go figure!

[RobHimself]

What can a CBS be with?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by RobHimself

What can a CBS be with?

That's a subjective question. It's entirely up to the individual hobbyist to make this decision. I have never kept coral banded shrimp (Stenopus hispidus) but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider keeping them under the right circumstances. I have kept a flame angelfish (Centropyge loriculus) in a reef tank knowing that it might cause problems. It didn't. And I have kept a foxface rabbitfish (Siganus vulpinus) in a reef tank knowing that it's possible it could cause problems, although much less likely than in the case of the flame angelfish. I kept an orchid dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani), too. It was perfectly well behaved except that it did like to eat bristleworms (Eurythoe complanata) and it did kill a small neon goby (Gobiosoma oceanops) that I tried to introduce.

Robert Fenner has a nice write-up on Stenopus hispidus on his website. Check it out.

Whether you choose to keep any coral banded shrimp or not is entirely up to you. If you do, it might be better to keep only one, or a mated pair, and it might be better to not keep any other ornamental shrimp with it/them unless your tank is fairly large (say at least 180 gallons). Under no circumstances do you want to put two CBS males together in the same tank (unless it is very large, at least 300 gallons). They will literally tear each other limb from limb.

If you put stenopids in the same tank with more docile shrimp like Lysmata spp., the Lysmata shrimp may be attacked and killed (eaten) by the CBS when they are molting. That's when they are most vulnerable. All shrimp are cannibalistic if they are hungry enough and/or crowded enough. The winner will be the more aggressive shrimp.

The threat to small fish is real but rare. In most cases coral banded shrimp will do nothing more than display at annoying fish. There have been some reports of this shrimp using its formidable rostrum to spear small, bottom-dwelling fish. It's hard to say whether this was a territorial dispute or a hunger issue. Probably the former. If you keep your coral banded shrimp well fed, that should lessen their aggression, at least as far as hunger is concerned. In a typical aquarium with fish that are being fed, the shrimp will be fed at the same time with the food that the fish miss.

[RobHimself]

WOW! That was informative! Thanks so much. It would appear that I can get one then. I was just concerned of the threat to other inverts. I'm not going to keep it with other shrimps but things such as crabs I'm worried about. Apparently he should be fine though.

[Ninong]

You can often find these sold as mated pairs. That might be a good idea if you're interested in observing paired behavior.

Again, this species is NOT hermaphroditic and you do NOT want to end up with two males. Mature males are smaller and more slender than females but you may have a hard time figuring out whether juveniles are male or female.

In this species, if it's carrying eggs, it's a female. That's not true with Lysmata spp. -- all adult Lysmata shrimp carry eggs.

[RobHimself]

I was thinking of a mated pair. I will probably do that since it supposedly lowers aggression, (Not sure if this is true though) and it will just be more entertaining.