[LIBERTY]

Okay I mest up. My tank is cloudy ( Precipitation ) And I need to fix it.
I only Have 13 gal of salt water for a water change on hand will this fix it. I was trying to get it from a fowlr to reef. Now I think I’m going to say with fowlr.

[LIBERTY]

sorry tank is 110 gl sump 20

[myerst22]

Well to rid the cloudiness add a large bottle of Cycle. Also using a POLY Pad will help dramatically. If your going FO, get a the biggest UV you can afford and run it at 300 GPH and you will have a tank that looks if there is no water in the tank. Also use a high quality carbon and put it under a graudual flow, i.e return from a skimmer. Hope this helps Regards, Tim

[leebca]

Cloudiness can be the cause of several different situations. You did not say what you did when you tried to make the conversion. Did you try to raise the alkalinity, change the calcium or magnesium content, etc., etc.?

If the cloudiness is from a precipitation of chemicals, then that is handled one way. If the cloudiness is due to a bloom of bacteria or microbes, that is handled another way. Without clarification of what the 'cloudiness' is from, it is hard to give recommendations.

Does the water look like milk or is it just a little cloudy? Is it cloudy when you look from the front of the aquarium to the back, or just when you look down the length of the tank?

[LIBERTY]

I was trying to get the mag and the cal up.
Did a 5 gal water change this morning
test are now cal droped 260 everything ells is fine.
It's a little cloudy ( white )

[Poseidon]

What did you add? If you added a Ca and an Alk supplement at the same time, that will cloud the tank, and drop the Ca and Alk levels.

Please give more details.

[LIBERTY]

no not at the same time I used kent supperbuffer dkh twice, once at night and in the mornig to get the kh alk up form 8 to 10 then the kent M teck to get the meg up from 1020 to 1200 little two cap in the morning and two at night for a week. this did very little so I uped it some to 4 that mornig,it did go to1200 The same day but at night I put kent turbo buster cal only 1/4 taespoon. The next day it started getting cloudy
After all this clears up I'm just going back to the 5 gal wc a week and keep it a fowlr
I'm going to do another 5 gl wc to night if it's all right.
I read that it will take a two to three day to clear up, is this right?

[leebca]

Take a look at this post, under the section titled BALANCE. Post: What is Water Quality. This shows a table of your ultimate goal in balancing the alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium.

To get there takes a lot of time if the starting numbers are very different. Even most FOWLR systems need this balance; assuming you want to grow Coralline algae and maintain healthy live rock. Both Coralline and any life depending upon shells or exoskeletons (e.g., snails) need to have enough carbonates and the balance between those ingredients. But if you have not been doing this all along, then you need to make very small adjustments, wait 48 hours, check the numbers again, and then make another small adjustment, wait 48 hours, check the numbers, etc., etc.

For a large(ish) marine system, it is often best to use actual chemicals for the adjustments, rather than additives. Most additives are not meant to make significant changes, but just to replenish the ingredients normally consumed by the marine life.

Whether or not you want a FOWLR or Reef, I still suggest you keep alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium in balance according to the table in the above post.

A handy calculator is found here, clicking on the "Traditional" button: Reef Calculator. Practice maintaining the correct balance of these three before you make a move to a Reef (if you ultimately decide to do that).

Good luck!

[LIBERTY]

I’ve been up most of the night reading. I think the Meg was to low. 1200 now it’s 1000 I just put 5 mil in and I’ll put more in, not all at once. the calculator omy god 237 teaspoons, that’s allot. I did 10gal wc yesterday and will do 20 today and test it before hand. I get it from the lfs. All I have right now is the kent supperbuffer dkh., kent turbo ca. I pick up the b-ionic 2 part.
Water test ca 300 kh is 9. Water is still cloudy
Ph is 7.97 pinpoint calab it yesterday, putin back in 7 and read 7 put it in the 10 and read 9.98.

[leebca]

Sounds like you're getting it under control. Just take your time.

After each small adjustment, wait 48 hours. The cloudiness, if from the chemicals you added (which I think is the case, now) will subside. Bring all the numbers into balance, according to that chart.

The three measurements: Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium pretty much control the pH. Once they are in correct balance the pH will be where it should be and also, very stable at that level. If you would like to do more reading on this, then I suggest: A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Good luck!

[LIBERTY]

The only thing I added was the meg this morning, and I put 5mil more about an hr ago. I think it was the wc got the ca up. I using red sea form the lfs. Ordering a ro/di this week form the water guys, I here the 75 gal is a good one. Then I’ll make it my self. I’ve tested lfs’s before the ca sometimes is 300 other times 400 alk 8 to 12.
I was using the seamans buffer to get the alk up and to mach the ph is that okay?, but I’m get the b-ionic to do that.
The waters not milky it just white cloudy. The fish are still eating, the only coral is, or was a small gsp and I have a 3 small zoa. Only have pc lights so I’m only going to have softy's in there, I like the clover.
Sorry about going on but there’s one ells to take to about the tank. I feel so bad
Thanks again.
Ieebca

[leebca]

No need to feel bad. However, the fact that you do just shows that you are a caring hobbyists and that is in your favor. Second, you sought help and that is a very good sign of your sensibility. We've all made mistakes. When it comes to mistakes like this, the marine fish life is tolerant of such events. Other life forms may find the particles interfere with their processes. But. . .It's a precipitate that is 'natural' even though it has been introduced 'artificially.' It will take time to right itself. Try to keep the precipitate from 'settling' on your live rock and any other sessile life forms. Gently stir the water near the top of the rock to get any particles back into the water column once or twice a day. A good mechanical filter set to capture fine particulates (200 microns or less) would be helpful, even if used for just this event.

The wide variances in the salt water you're using would account for the fluctuations in your water chemistries. As you've concluded, this is not good. You want a stable water supply that you can count upon OR a holding place for you to make adjustments on the new water before it is used in the water change. If you make your own salt water from a source water, you will want to read this, too: WATER - Source and NSW

Sorry, but I can't speak on specific additives or off-the-shelf products. I don't use them and I don't know what is in them. For the most part, most are there to replenish the components that have been consumed or removed by marine life forms. For adjustments, using the basic chemicals, is what I do. Whatever product you choose to use, use it slowly and check out the effect it has on your water chemistries by waiting 48 hours after adding it, then checking the water by test kit (not dip sticks).

[LIBERTY]

For adjustments, using the basic chemicals, is what I do
Okay got to ask, ( hope you don't mind) what do you use? I really don’t like putting the buffers in to get the ph up. Is it baked baking soda? I have herd that will bring the ph up.
And the water, I live two blocks form the bay (Tampa bay) and have a boat, I don’t think I’d use it, to many boats and red tide. We had a bad one a couple of years ago, Dead fish all over the place.
For tests I using API meg is red sea.
Thanks for not making me fell to bad, But I still do

[leebca]

Ask whatever questions you have.

You see, as I mentioned above, once you've put the alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium into balance according to the table I provided, you will find that the pH is exactly where it should be for those chemistries. That is to say, you don't have to make any pH adjustments once those others are in balance.

If you read that link I provided, you'll read that when those chemistries are set properly, the pH falls into the correct zone. In fact, when those chemistries are set properly, it is hard to change the pH up or down. It is the 'natural' pH driven by the buffering ability of the water, which is based upon alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium.

If your pH is 'off' then first concentrate on getting all the other chemistry properly set and then see where the pH is at. Don't attempt to adjust the pH until all those three are in balance AND in the levels indicated in that table I referred you to.

However, if it is needed to raise the pH, like for when I setup a quarantine tank and need to lower the salinity, I used baked pure baking soda.

The Red Sea test kits are good. I have no complaints about them. However personally, I find the Salifert kits more reliable and easier to read. When you use test kits always look closely for an expiration date. Don't buy or use any that are out of date AND don't buy any that don't have a clearly indicated expiration date.

[LIBERTY]

Sorry I was asking about water change. I’ve read you should have it about the same ph, no more then .05 up or down. When I put the ph probe in the saltwater I get from the lfs its like 7.76 and my tank is 8.03.Or dos this mean the water I get form them is out of whack and this is I’m having a hard time. I’ve asks them if I have to do anything to it and they said no. I’m really not trusting this lfs anymore. One opened up the road about half the distance. Asked him about the Meg cal and alk, He said Meg has not a thing to do with it. So I don’t think I’ll be going back there.
I was going to get more sw from the lfs I stared with, but you think it will be better off to just get ro and the salt mix and do it my self.

[LIBERTY]

I'm going to make my sw, only got ro form the lfs, and redsea, didn't have the b-ionic so got DT's anybody use this before? Will be testing tonight for alk meg and ca
Tank looks a lot better. Was going to try and keep the ca at 300 alk at 9 till I get the meg up to at lest 1250 dos this sound about right? Don't need a cloud agian. And I'll put more meg in only put 10 mil in today.

[leebca]

I didn't catch the part about water changes. If you do a large water change (say over 10%) then you want to control pH, temperature, and specific gravity closely. The guidance for that is here: How to Make a Successful Water Change

You can use the baked pure baking soda for that adjustment.

If your water change is under 15% then you don't have to watch the parameters that closely.

Most water obtained from sources does not contain the alkalinity, calcium and magnesium in the concentrations we keep in the marine system. The numbers for alkalinity, calcium and magnesium are elevated because the system is closed off. If the system was attached to the sea or ocean, then those things wouldn't matter because the system would have a nearly unlimited access to those chemicals. But in a closed system, like the home marine system, we keep those things at higher levels so that the marine life can draw upon them and still keep the water more or less steady.

So the water you may be getting isn't 'bad' per se. It is just not the water we like to keep in the aquarium that has to 'feed' coralline algae, snails, and live rock (along with other corals and invertebrates). When you make a large water change with that water, it will alter the chemistries of alkalinity, calcium and magnesium. You have a choice -- either adjust the new water before you make a water change or adjust the system water after you make the water change.

For the sake of keeping things steady, my preference is to adjust the new water before I make a water change. However, technically, there has been little to show it makes any significant difference -- just as long as the end results are at the levels it says you should have (in my post, in that reef chemistry calculator, in articles written by experienced chemists that are also aquarists, etc.).

Don't fault the LFS that claims that magnesium makes no difference. Magnesium is at the end of what makes a difference. Some think it doesn't make a difference. However, the science shows it does in fact contribute to the proper use of carbonates in the water by those organisms that utilize carbonates in their growth and/or metabolism. Not many know this science part of the hobby. There is a lot to know and remember in this hobby.

If your tank is 8.03 then you want any large water change to be of that similar pH (as you say, within 0.05 pH units). "Large" in this case is over 15% of the actual volume in the system. Below 10% don't worry about it. Between 10 and 15% it is sort of up to the kind of marine life you keep. With a FOWLR system, I would not worry about the pH of the new water if I was doing a 15% (or less) water change.

Regarding:

Was going to try and keep the ca at 300 Alk at 9 till I get the meg up to at lest 1250 dos this sound about right?

I wouldn't skew any of the ingredients. You should be making a small Calcium increase and a small (but 'equal') alkalinity increase, and a small magnesium increase at the same time - adding them slowly, and waiting 48 hours. Test. and if needed, add again all three. You want to raise them all up to their proper numbers together, not just one at a time.

Adding one or just two is what can lead to the cloudiness.

[LIBERTY]

I like doing a small wc a week, 5 gal at a time It's not that hard or alittle more to clean the sump.
Test tonight are ca 280 alk 9 mag 1080 The only thing I put in today was the meg 10mil this mornig. So the ca was at 300 after the wc, it did go down alittle, I'll retest in the moring. I think I need some sleep.
PH is 8.13 now, This is a good thing, Yes. Tank looks a lot better.
Dose all a little at a time. I'm not going to put any in to night.
I got DT's PURE 1ca,2alk,3meg, at the lfs didn't have b-ionic, is it any good?
thanks for working this out with me.

[LIBERTY]

Here's what I did this mornig test or cal 280 alk 9.5 meg 1000
dosed 15 mil of meg 10 mil of cal 10 mil of alk PH is 7.99. I read it gos down some it night. I'm going slow, Is this to slow?
Tank is very clear now

[leebca]

You may be going a little too fast.

Remember the recommendation is to make changes only after 48 hours. That means every other day, not daily.

When you make the addition, add it slowly.

Otherwise, I think you're on track. pH will fluctuate day/night and during these additions. Monitor the pH but do nothing to alter the pH yet. Raise all three components together until you're in the 'zone.'