[dfont12]

I will try to describe the conditions in my tank as best as possible, some very strange things are happening and would appreciate any insight as to what is going on, so here it goes..

I recently tested my water a couple of days ago with a API test kit which revealed my ammonium level to be elevated as well as the nitrate level at 50, but nitrite was at 0. At this time, the tank looked great (FOWLR) and fish were acting normal. I then treated it with a detoxify agent at the recommended dosage (something to eliminate nitrate, ammonium, etc). The next day I planned on doing a water change. The next day I brought a new water sample into the fish store to have tested, the test was completely normal. Either the treatment worked, or my test was inaccurate, or there test was inaccurate. I decided to do the water change anyway. The next morning I woke up and walked in to do the water change and noticed that the tank was very cloudy and there were no visible fish and noticed a few dead ones on the bottom, as well as a dead arrow crab and two coral banded shrimp, hermit crabs were still alive. I also noticed my brittle star to be moving around the tank a lot. I have never seen it out when it is light out, it is usually under a rock, it would not stop moving. Also noticed tiny white worm/insect looking things in the water, also have never seen these. Also, there were tiny white starfish crawling all over the rock, have never seen these either, I suppose they live in the live rock and something made them come out. A couple of hours later, my picasso trigger swam out from underneath a rock breathing very rapidly but otherwise looking fine. I tested the water at the time, which revealed normal parameters, no ammonium, no nitrates. I immediately did a 20 percent water change which helped clear the tank a little bit. It has been about 12 hours since I noticed this. Now all the hermit crabs have climbed to the very top of the live rock and are stacking themselves on top of each other, very strange, they are all at the highest point of the tank, the brittle star is dead, and the trigger is still alive for the moment. The hermit crab shells also have those little worm/insect looking creatures stuck to their shells, but easily come off when touched, I have never seen these in the tank.

Sorry for the length, but I just wanted to provide as much detail as possible, thanks for any help.

[Bullet]

Not to sound stupid, but that sounds no good. Do you have any pics? Have you added any new critters lately, whats the temp, pH, sg, ect? What is your tank size, and how long has it been up? These questions may help some of us to do some detective work as to why and how things are going bad in your tank. I'm thinking you may have some sort of flukes/parasites that have been introduced, and your ammonia has to be climbing up with the die off.

[dfont12]

Thanks for the reply:

Yea I agree, it does sound bad.

Ph 7.8 ammonium 0 nitrite 0 nitrates 50 temp 78.5

No new critters for about 4 weeks, the tank is a 75 gallon with a very light fish load (one clown, one coral beauty, one trigger, and a couple of damsels). I had a problem with ich in the past, but nothing like this, the water had never been cloudy. I would take pics, but not sure if anything would show up except the cloudiness. The white organisims are tiny, 2mm, have two antennae and are attached to the crab shells.

I also have 1000s of tiny white flat snails attached to glass and live rock, I was told by my fish store that these are normal and will cause no harm.

[dfont12]

sorry I forgot...tank has been up for about 6 months

[leebca]

I don't know the size of your system (gallons). However, just to be conservative, buy distilled water. Mix your salt in that. Then perform an 80% (or larger if you can) water change.

I want to know the exact product(s) you added to the aquarium. Please give their proper name. Also indicate exactly how much you added and how you measured the additive.

I suggest distilled water in case your source water has altered in quality. Check your source water quality.

Check for any source of dead or dying marine life and remove it.

Check for any source of poisoning.

I also would like to know the following:
Gallons in display tank; type of system setup (do you have a refugium, sump, etc.); list each fish that was in the tank originally along with an estimate of each's length; the kind of substrate and how deep it is; and equipment on the system (skimmer, UV, mechanical filter, biological filter, chemical filters, etc.).

Keep in mind that the few home/hobby marine water test kits that are out there only test the 'tip of the iceberg' so-to-speak when it comes to water quality. The initial sign of ammonia is very unusual and, rather than jumping to correct it, it would have been better to stop and consider how and why that happened, before taking action.

But since there is obviously something wrong with the water, performing a huge water change is important to get the poison(s) out immediately.

Your water change should follow this procedure:
How to Make a Successful Water Change

I would like you to read through this post as soon as you have the time:
What is Water Quality.

Regarding who's tests are good or not good -- check expiration dates on your test kits. Keep them current. Also, be sure not to contaminate the chemicals in the kits with other chemicals, salt water, etc. Use clean and dry test tubes and containers and droppers. If in doubt, buy new ones. Salifert is a very good brand of test kits, if they are available to you.

If you have a fish-only aquarium (which it sounds like, with the Stars that you don't) you should be monitoring and controlling: Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium. (See the post on water quality I've given above for what these three should be, in order to have a balanced water system).

[dfont12]

It is a 75 gallon system, I use RO freshwater to top off as need be and I used already made salt water that was mixed with RO when I did my water change, however everything happened before I did the water change, so it was not the water and I had not topped it off for quite some time, so I do not think it was the water source. Unless it was some sort of extremely delayed reaction, but everything died overnight, so its doubtful. The tank went from crystal clear to cloudy in a matter of 8 hours.

The products I add to the tank each week are Kent Garlic extreme, 7 drops, measured by dropper, API Natural Trace Marine, 35 ml, measured by cap that has measurement line on it, and API Stress Zyme, 35ml, measured by cap included. I have used these weekly for some time and have never had a problem. The new chemical I used was Drs. Foster and Smith Water Repair Stabilize at a dosage of 35ml one time, then 35ml again the next day (the label said you can triple the dosage for high levels of ammonium) Im starting to think this is the culprit, as it is the only thing different I have done to the tank. It was recently purchased, so it should not be expired, but I cannot find an expiration date on it.

All of the hermit crabs moved to very top of the live rock, almost seems as they are trying to get out of the tank, also Im seeing what I think are brown catepillar-type worms crawling all over the sand bed, I have never seen these. Im assuming that these, like the tiny white starfish, are coming out of the live rock, trying to find clean water. The hermit crabs are not starting to die, the only thing living as far as I can tell, is one turbo snail.

How do I check for poisoning? Im starting to think this must be checmical, due to the fact that it is affecting all species.

It is a 75 gallon tank with a canister filter that has 3 stage filtration (carbon, bio balls, ceramic rings, sponge media) No sump, refugium, or skimmer. I had a small clown (2 inches), 1 coral beauty (3-4inches), 1 picasso trigger (3 inches), 2 yellow tail damsels (1 inch), 2 coral banded shrimp, 1 emerald crab, 1 arrow crab, 50-60 hermit crabs, 1 brittle star. I have a 2 inch deep sand bed substrate.

I am using an API master test kit, that was recently purchased in the last 3 months, cannot find any expiration dates.

Should I remove the dead fish now? Should I still do the water change now, even though everything is dead, if so, how many gallons? Should I drain it completely? Is my live rock and sand bed now infected? Do I have to get all new rock? Is there anyway I can find out exactly what happened, to prevent it from happening again?

This is the second tank crash in a matter of 6 months, first it was ich, now this, getting very frustrated.

Thanks for all help, I really appreciate it.

I do have a sample of the original water, when I first noticed the cloudiness, before the water change, can I take this anyway to have tested?

[leebca]

I agree, it is not likely the source water.

Regarding your questions:
Immediately remove any marine life (fishes, etc.) that are dead.
Do the large water change as mentioned previously (80%+). That fixes a lot of hurt.

Wait and see about the rock. Do the above first and observe.

Stress-Zyme is not something to keep adding. If your system needs this additive, then something is wrong on a major scale. I would say one thing seems to have been possible and that is the system is overstocked with fishes and nitrogen waste producing marine life.

Water Repair Stabilize from Drs. Foster and Smith, as they have posted it, is for start ups and when the system has been overloaded. Neither of these conditons apply and should not apply to a mature marine aquarium system.

You seem to be buying and putting in things that, if the system was setup and running properly, would not require these things. Let's get this stuff out and start over again properly, at a slow pace, making sure you don't overstock nor go too fast. See below link on starting a system up.

If not overstocked, then the system was rushed too fast. Have you read this? If not, then read: The Mature Aquarium

A marine aquarium must start slowly and grow and evolve in order to hold marine life. It should have gone something like this: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

Compare the above to what you are doing and did for some possible clues as to what is happening.

You could have the before water analyzed, except the technician will ask you what to analyze for. Since we don't know, it would like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Hold on to the water, anyway.

For now: stop adding ALL the things you have been adding. You'll save money and help the system properly stabilize on its own.

[dfont12]

I spoke to a few local guys in the area and this was the consensus. Does this make sense? Does anyone else agree?

The additives I put in caused an aerobic bacteria bloom, which is the cause for the cloudy water. These bacteria use up oxygen and basically starved the system of oxygen, which is why it affected both fish and inverts and why the living fish that I did see was breathing rapidly.

They suggested to just let the system sit for a couple of weeks, since everything is now dead. The tank will eventually cycle itself back to normal. They suggested using a product called "Prime" to help breakdown ammonium that will be building up.

They advised against doing a water change at this point, since there is nothing living in the tank, and if I changed the water now, the bacteria would just spread into the new water.

Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts???

Thanks

[leebca]

I can't help but speak up one more time, though you have not invited my input.

STOP putting additives into your tank.

Additives aren't needed to fix problems. Doing things correctly and slowly fixes problems. No marine system needs these kinds of additives. Let everything move forward naturally. If people keep telling you to buy additives, you need to sit back and figure out what they have to gain from you buying products that are just band-aids to a problem.

Maybe you've read the links I've provided, but have you not learned this straightforward approach from them? Money alone can't buy a good, stable, quality marine system. It takes time and patience and doing things the way hobbyists have found works best.

Good luck!

[weez1959]

I agree with Lee on this one, adding crap to your tank will only lead to problems down the road. You need to do the water change to give your tank a fresh start. Also, don't listen to the guys at the LFS, most of the time they only want to sell you something and if it does cause your tank to crash again they will gain by selling you more additives, fish and inverts
By doing everything in a hurry (which I assume is the reason for having 2 crashes in 6 months) your tank will never have a chance to mature. Stop putting stuff in your tank and everything will go much better!

[kronos5]

I agree with leebca.