Lee, Need some love

[Parrothead]

Got a client of mine that is getting back into the hobby, we are picking up a standard 90 with all the toys,(skimmer, uv, wet/dry, and ref.) He is going with fowlr, I need the following if you don't mind.

1. recommended depth of sand bed(or would crushed coral be better)
2. a short list of manly fish
3. He does want an angel fish.(I know, tough call)
4. amount of live rock, I was thinking 1.5lbs per gal.

Lighting is kick butt, 2 - 250 watt Halides, and 2 96 wat pcs.
over rated wet/dry
large skimmer,
don't have specs on uv at this time

please advise, picking tank up Saturday a.m. and will be ordering rock and sand or other on monday.

Thanks for your help.

Robert

[leebca]

Robert,

1. Very optional. In a FOWLR system it provides more surface for the biological filtration. Something pleasing to the eye between 1 and 1.5 inches deep. 2.0 inches if there will be sand sifters or fishes that bury themselves partially.

2. I don't offer marine fish suggestions. That is personal. You should show a book of fishes to the client. Exclude large Angels, Tangs, Rabbittfishes, most Triggerfishes, and others that require more space and/or tank length.

3. No large adult Angels. Dwarf Angels - up to 2 or 3. A juvenile large Angel is okay, but after it gets to be about 3 inches in length, it will need a new home. Basically, don't believe the client when they say they will get a bigger tank, later.

4. 2 pounds per gallon is recommended for a FOWLR system, assuming 'normal' rock density.

[Parrothead]

Thanks Lee, great suggestions, wil discuss with client

[Parrothead]

Lee,
Hey it's saturday, here is the game plan for the above tank,
100 lbs of live rock(75 decent coraline rock, and 25 deco rock)
85 lbs, true live sand - should create a 2" bed
quick questions, should I run it in with just the sand and the 75lbs, and add the deco. after cycle or run in at the same time, the deco is some prime rock, hate to kill it off, let me know when you can. As mentioned it does have a oversized wet/dry, no bio-balls, what are your thoughts about adding them in, I know the can turn into a nitrate factory, or do you think the rock and sand would suffice, I know it depends alot on bio load(# of Fish and such) please advise.

Thanks
Robert

[leebca]

Nitrates usually aren't an issue in a FOWLR system. Use the bio-balls and cut back on rock, if you like. Otherwise the LR is already short (should be closer to 180 pounds), so the bio-balls would be a positive 'safety net.'

"True live sand" is a bit of an oxymoron. Don't waste your money on this.

If the rock and substrate is added to properly mixed and 'seasoned' salt water there will still be some die-off but if the rock has been properly cleaned of dead organisms (cured) it should be fine at the outset. Have you read this? Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

Many of your questions are answered in the above post.

2" is okay as mentioned in my previous post. However a consideration should be the particle size of the substrate. At that depth, you don't want 'sand sized' particles. You want larger particles. This will help prevent 'packing' the substrate.

[myerst22]

Just out of curiosity are you (Parrothead) in the aquarium design and maintenance business? Tim

[Parrothead]

Nope, Just have a client wanting to get back in the hobby, and am giving him a hand. And he put me in charge of the project. I used to be in the main. end and have worked in a couple of lfs, just to support the habit. Curious about the question though, let me know.

Robert

[Parrothead]

Lee,

The sand is collected well off shore in the gulf of mexico from a depth of 50 feet, should I be a bit concerned about particle size, dist. has indicated kind of a pink color due to some shell fragments and such, so I would gather by that it should be differnt size particles. Let me know, Thanks so much and have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Robert

[leebca]

As you increase the depth of the substrate, you'd like to increase the particle size of the substrate. This is to prevent the possibility of packing.

Based upon the collection location and description -- I don't know. You need to have a sample of it in hand to make the determination; photos (up close) with a reference item (dime, BB, etc.); and/or a reliable someone there to give you the answer.

Happy holidays!

[Parrothead]

Lee,

Would it be beneficial to mix the sand with some other form of substrate, I have seen alot of Gulf Sand, but that was 10 - 12 years ago and if memory serves me correctly it was sorta shelly, not alot but a good mix. I've read your post about agraonite(forgive the spelling), would a mix be better. As far as size goes the shell I remember was 1/4 inch plus, but no bigger than 1/2 inch. but out of a couple thousands pounds we sold, no one ever complained, but as mentioned that was a while ago, and some of the customers that frequented this lfs should not have been allowed to own a tank, they just wouldn't listen if you get my drift. No disrespect intended towards them or the store, we didn't last long because we would refuse to sell a fragile fish to some that just set a tank up, they would go up the road and buy the fish and ask us why it died. This is a good client and want to take care of him, I do not run a maint. biz, but somehow I've been placed in charge of this project and want to show him the proper way and the proper love.

Robert

[leebca]

Oops!

We're not on the same page. By size concerns, I'm speaking in terms of mm. The 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch is way 'out' of the realm of concern.

I was under the impression you were going for the 2" depth because you'd have some sand dwelling marine fishes -- those that like to dig holes/homes in the substrate. If this IS the case, that sized substrate (1/4 inch) would be too large for them to dig into and make a hole/home. If this ISN'T the case, keep the depth at 1.5 inch or below and go with whatever substrate particle size you want.

For the digging marine fishes there are a couple of 'offsetting' conditions with regards to particle size of the substrate: The substrate must be fine enough to maneuver BUT large enough to hold its shape when a hole has been made. A third concern is to make sure there is some mix (sizes) in the substrate to lessen the risk of compaction with a thick depth of substrate. But this is in the mm range of sizes.

[Parrothead]

Lee,

My Mistake, the sand is normal size sand with some shell frags in it, the only fish that may be present in the tank that would want to bury itself might be a wrasse, everything else would be out and about throughout the tank. I would still like to go with a 2" bed for eye appeal, and a little cushion should a small piece of rock become dislodged and head south. Also did forget to mention the system did come with a ref.(homemade drilled in the side)20gal. Is this something that would be beneficial to a fowlr tank?

[leebca]

If the substrate is the size of a 'standard' sand particle, you'll want to mix that in with particles about 50% larger than that. Mixing in about 30% of the larger substrate would be good enough.

However, since burying isn't an issue, then go ahead and use the larger substrate you mentioned (the quarter inch size) if that is appealing.

A refugium can be of benefit for a FOWLR system. In my opinion, macro algae puts some chemicals, like aloe into the marine system which I personally believe is beneficial to the marine fishes. It may provide added entertainment to the owner. If there is a deep sand bed in the refugium, it can be setup with 'mud' and thus provide some additional micro elements to the water.