Beginner looking for some simple advice

[mojojones]

Helo all, hate to say the same old cliche "I'm a newbie, need advice" but I have read Lee's threads (you really are a godsent to the community Lee, thanks for all you do, and everyone else giving good advice ) and I still have a few questions. Here's how it goes....I bought a 20 gallon hex tank a week ago, added live sand from FLS in package, and 7.5 LBS of live rock. Was going to add some more live rock this week and let it cycle. Decided I wanted a tank with a larger base to accommodate snails or starfish, etc. I just purchased an established tank last night. The tank is a 38 gallon JEBO R375 all in one system. It had been running for two years, and was running when I bought it, containing one Blue Damsel, and about eight Hermits. Substrate is live sand, and decorations consist of a few fake corals (ceramic?) and a few dead real corals. Very clear water and had been well taken care of. I want to make it clear that my goal is to have FOWLR tank with a possibility of moving to reef some day, which may mean upgrading tanks once again... I set the 38 gallon tank up and added my 7.5 LBS of live rock and 15+LBS of live sand and the 50W heater from the other hex tank, then returned it's original water to it, along with the Damsel (after acclimation). She (I call it she because it's soooo pretty!) is seemingly doing great, very interested in whatever is going on and eating happily. Also, the tank was at 72.2 degrees while in the previous owner's posession, who never had a heater in it. The 38 gallon tank is about 30" x 19" x 18". I have seen a few creatures in the sand like a reddish sort of flat worm with little pusher like feelers running down its sides, and something that resembles a rollie pollie on some of the rock that was in the established tank.

My ideal list of friends are as follows:
1. Flame Angel
2. Bi-colore Blenny
3. Psychadelic (spotted one, I hear the dark green swirled one needs lighting like crazy and live food, want the low maint. one which I was told is the spotted darker green one)
4. Clown (please advise best species for this system)
5. Snails
6. Shrimp
7. TBA (not sure what my bioload will be at after 1 thru 6, and inherited Damsel, please advise.

My questions are as follows:

1. Do I raise the temp slowly to 76, which is the temp my LFS personnell suggested, or leave it at the 73.4 it is currently at?

2. Is the 5.7LBS of my week old live rock going to cause problems as the Damsel is not used to live rock, or will it raise any amonia/nitrite/nitrate levels too quickly? (the live rock I bought was colorful, lots of green, hard bubbly texture, some other colors like light red on it) Did not ask if it was fully cured at time of purchase.

3. How fast and in what quantities should I add live rock? ( I read 1.5-2 LBS per gallon, correct?)

4. When should I introduce a few turbo snails and shrimp, how quickly and what quantities?

5. Filter: the filter built in to this tank is a pump that sends water above the tank, and through a 24"+ piece of pipe running from left to right across the tank with equidistant holes drilled 1 inch apart on both the front and back sides. The water drops an inch or so into a tray which houses a filter media (currenty white fiberglass looking material) suspended over the tray's bottom, where the water falls again and runs down to the end and back into the tank, where it makes a flushing sound. I bought a HOB skimmer filter brand new for the hex tank, and figured out a way to hang it no the new one, with the intake pipe down through the return end of the built in filter tray, as I hear it is a good idea to have a skimmer with a FOWLR and live sand. It is only rated for 20 gallons, but I can't return it so I figuerd whats the worst, change the tray daily? No biggie. Is this a good idea or should I find a higher rated skimmer to put in the cabinet, no skimmer? I will have to modify the built in filter's plastic cover to accommodate the HOB skimmer, no biggie but it will be permanent if done.

6. Many more to comer, I will try to keep reading to get more info so as not to waste anyones time. Thanks in advance for everyone's help! Take care.

[Seige]

Welcome to Reefland.

My ideal list of friends are as follows:
1. Flame Angel
2. Bi-colore Blenny
3. Psychadelic (spotted one, I hear the dark green swirled one needs lighting like crazy and live food, want the low maint. one which I was told is the spotted darker green one)
4. Clown (please advise best species for this system)
5. Snails
6. Shrimp
7. TBA (not sure what my bioload will be at after 1 thru 6, and inherited Damsel, please advise.

Your tanks small so you don't want anything that will get larger than 2-3" unless you plan on upgrading when they become adults. Tanks a bit small for a Flame Angel but you can try. It should be added last since it's territorial. The Damsel is territorial too which may be a problem since it's already in the tank. When you add fish it'll be better if you change the rock setup so it doesn't recognize it's territory. Adding live rock at that time will help. For fish I'd start with the clown first and see how the damsel reacts.

Adding new fish after dark when blue is asleep can help the new fish settle a bit before the torment begins.

1. Do I raise the temp slowly to 76, which is the temp my LFS personnell suggested, or leave it at the 73.4 it is currently at?

I would but slowly. Maybe a degree every couple days. I don't have experience with FOWLR tanks though so if someone responds differently listen to them. ;)

2. Is the 5.7LBS of my week old live rock going to cause problems as the Damsel is not used to live rock, or will it raise any amonia/nitrite/nitrate levels too quickly? (the live rock I bought was colorful, lots of green, hard bubbly texture, some other colors like light red on it) Did not ask if it was fully cured at time of purchase.

The Blue Devil errr I mean Damsel will be ok with it but see notes above...

3. How fast and in what quantities should I add live rock? ( I read 1.5-2 LBS per gallon, correct?)

Anywhere from 1-1.5 LBS is fine. I'd add them 1 or 2 at a time each time you add fish to throw off the Damsels territorial instincts.

4. When should I introduce a few turbo snails and shrimp, how quickly and what quantities?

For snails add 4-6 small nassarius snails and 3 or 4 small turbo's (not the large mexican turbo) and/or ceriths. You can add a skunk, blood, or peppermint shrimp at any time.

Throw in at least a dozen extra shells in various sizes so your hermits won't kill your new snails as fast. If you can return some hermits to the LFS it'll help.

oh, your tanks way to small for a starfish other then mini / micro stars, but then so is mine.

Good luck!

[mojojones]

Hi there Siege, have been reading a few of your posts lately too, thanks for all you do to help everyone out. Thanks for the advice, however your answer for # 4 didn't touch on what I want to know about when I can get those guys, can I get some of them today, or do I need to wait to get more live rock to handle the bioload? And yeah, a mini starfish is fine for me. I plan on having a lot of floor space, stacking live rock tall.

[Seige]

Thanks, lol. Did you read my noob thread? ;-)
New tank not cycling

I probably answer more then I should. Helps me to remember things (my memory is terrible) and to learn because if I say something wrong or not quite correct Ninong and Lee correct me. ;-)

Do you have a test kit? If you don't bring a water sample to the store and have them test it. You may go through a mini-cycle but it shouldn't be too bad since it was an established tank. If your water tests ok you should be fine adding snails today. I added mine roughly a dozen at a time along with other lifeforms.

You read Lee's thread on acclimitization? The drip method really is better. I have had no deaths due to acclimitization since I started using that process.

I Left the left side of my tank as open sand. For the first 2 months that's where all the action was. Ever since I added new fish everything likes to stay at the opposite end. I can't even entice them over for feedings. I think they got used to harassing Royal Gramma on that side so that's where they stayed.

What will you use for water changes?

[mojojones]

Yes, I have a cheap strips test kit, buyin a good chem kit today I think, a little high on PH and Alkalinity, but not bad. everything else good. I will be using ocean water from my LFS, they are about a block away from me and mixing sounds too time consuming. Also, I think the LFS I get my water from is where I will end up getting most of my fish. I was a little weary on taking the water to them for a test, even though they offered, because their primary goal, in my opinion, is to sell you more fish, so how much can you trust them? Better off learning myself, then having them test it, act like I don't know how, and see how trustworthy they are. Any comments on Question # 5?

[Seige]

Yes, I have a cheap strips test kit, buyin a good chem kit today

good.

I will be using ocean water from my LFS, they are about a block away from me and mixing sounds too time consuming.

Will it be the same salinity as your tank? You may end up mixing anyway to bring it up to the correct levels.

Also, I think the LFS I get my water from is where I will end up getting most of my fish. I was a little weary on taking the water to them for a test, even though they offered, because their primary goal, in my opinion, is to sell you more fish, so how much can you trust them?

You can't. You learn who you can trust with time.

Try asking them how many fish you can have in your tank or tell them you have low lighting and then ask if you can add some stoney coral. See how they respond.

Any comments on Question # 5?

ummm filters... Left that one off on purpose. I currently use a topfin 60, with no skimmer. Not the best person to ask advice from on that stuff. I do have a skimmer (A Current-USA Fission Power 8106) 150g. No idea how good it is or isn't. I think I finally tracked down a tank I can use in my cabinet so all I need to do is modify it into a sump and the skimmer will be online finally. Woot!!!

I guess their is one thing. The flushing noise may diminish if you raise or lower the water level. You'll need to test to figure out what level (if any) decreases noise.

[leebca]

Thanks for your post. To address your original list:

1. It depends on the fish you want to keep. Some like higher temps. In your list, that current temp is okay. The important thing to do is to keep the temperature steady. So if that temperature will go up in the summer, hold it steady there when it does.

2. Possibly. Not good to mix old rock with new rock. The new rock often goes through a dying off phase which will pollute the tank and potentially kill inhabitants.

3. Never add new live rock to an established system. Put new live rock in old water (water taken out for water change, for instance). Put is under light and circulation. Once the water shows no nitrites, no detectable ammonia, and still smells sweat, then wait a few weeks THEN add it to the established system.

4. Have you read these guidelines? Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium Follow these. GO SLOWLY.

5. How to properly size and get the right skimmer is covered in this post: What is Water Quality. There is A LOT of other info you need to understand in that post, too.

6. Keep reading. Hopefully you can learn from reading.

When it comes time to add more fishes, add them at the rate of one every 6 weeks after a quarantine period, just as it says in the link given above to #4.

Don't overstock your tank. That new tank is only going to support about 7" inches of fish and that is fish when they have grown. More to read on this: Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR

[cdearing]

Lee,

When you say "new live rock" do you mean uncured live rock?

Mojo,
If you don't have much for live rock in the tank already, if you put in algae eating snails such as turbo, you will have to supplement feed them. The worst thing is to buy some living thing for your tank and then watch it starve to death. I did that once. Don't want to do it again.The LFS told me that it was shrinking to fit the size of my tank. If I'd know it was starving I would have given it to someone with a larger more established tank. Just remember not to move too fast. Do your research first. Search the web, read and ask questions first before you buy. It will save you lots of heartaches and probably some money too in the long run.

Good luck and welcome to the reefland community.

Cynthia

[mojojones]

Thank you all for your advice. I am certainly excited to enter into a hobby which involves such a supportive community. I just asked the FLS yesterday if the rock I purchased was cured, she said it was from a wholeseller about four weeks ago and was cured at that time. It does look to be covered with a colorful assortment of life and a semi viscous membrane. If the three Zebra Turbo Snails need supplemental food, what should I use? (they are about the size of a nickel maybe) Also, there are thousands of tiny white specs in the water, which is otherwise crystal clear, possibly bubbles, but I am not sure. They are swirling around with the current, but do not seem to dissipate. I did not notice them in there before we brought the tank home. I am bringing more live rock (fully cured) home today or tomorrow, hopefully the snails will be ok. I need to buy a QT tank now so I am off to read about setting that one up. Any more advice is certainly welcome. Thanks.

[leebca]

"New live rock" includes any live rock that has been recently acquired. It ALL has to be checked for die off AND for acclimating to the new environment.

If the live rock has been in actual home aquarium use for a few months, then that is not what I call "new." Hope this helps.

[Seige]

Thank you all for your advice. I am certainly excited to enter into a hobby which involves such a supportive community. I just asked the FLS yesterday if the rock I purchased was cured, she said it was from a wholeseller about four weeks ago and was cured at that time. It does look to be covered with a colorful assortment of life and a semi viscous membrane. If the three Zebra Turbo Snails need supplemental food, what should I use? (they are about the size of a nickel maybe) Also, there are thousands of tiny white specs in the water, which is otherwise crystal clear, possibly bubbles, but I am not sure. They are swirling around with the current, but do not seem to dissipate. I did not notice them in there before we brought the tank home. I am bringing more live rock (fully cured) home today or tomorrow, hopefully the snails will be ok. I need to buy a QT tank now so I am off to read about setting that one up. Any more advice is certainly welcome. Thanks.

If you need to supplement your algae for your snails, you can buy a package of algae waffers. Just ask at your LFS.

The white specs could be air bubbles, stirred up sand, or something else... I'd leave it for a couple days and see if it settles. Do you have a lot of bubbles on your glass and rocks?

If you get sand with the QT you may want to add it to the main tank instead. Your QT can double as a med tank if it doesn't have any sand or rocks.

Stop at a hardware store and get a couple pieces of PVC pipe, around 1.5" inner diameter so the fish in the QT have a place to hide. I use the pvc T connectors so they have multiple openings to swim in and out of.

Good luck!

[mojojones]

Right on, I am in the plumbing business so I have carte blanch access to all kinds of PVC fittings. So no live sand in the QT then? I already have a small HOB skimmer filter that I can throw on the QT tank, it has been running on the display for a few days, if you think that's a good alternative to a sponge filter. One thing that is lurking in my mind is that 99% of these threads and reading info (I consider it homework, but fun homework, currently reading about 5 hours a day, and still feel scared like I have no clue what I am doing) refer to water sources as anything but ocean water, which is what my source will be. Now I think I better go buy a refractometer. I will get some snail wafers, thanks. Anyone got suggestions on the HOB skimmer issue, my Question 5 in the first post?

[Seige]

Just make sure it's new pvc. You don't want to risk contaminating your tank with who knows what...

You can put sand in the QT. If you want to use it as a med tank you'll just need to pull out the sand.

Ask about the skimmer in the equipment section too. You may have better luck.

Their are threads on ocean water and problems with using it. Specifically unknown contaminants. I think Lee or Ninong had some special instructions for it. If I recall it was about how long your trip was from the ocean. I didn't pay much attention since I'm about as far from an ocean as anyone can get.

I've been trying to recall, I believe the algae wafers are made from Hikari. If I recall correctly I picked up ones for freshwater. Not sure if saltwater wafers exist. At any rate, my shrimp usually start nibbling on them while they are still hard. Don't see snails on them much but every once in a while I'll see a snail cruising back and forth through the algae after the wafer softens up. My diamond goby doesn't like them though. He tosses them out of his caverns when they occasionally land inside.

[Seige]

Found the link for you...

Filtering natural seawater

Hope it helps.

[mojojones]

I actually mean I will be getting my water from my LFS, who has a massive tank in the store. But they don't mix it, they import it. We are only a 45 minute drive from the ocean (3 hours on a weekday)

[Seige]

So you have no idea how polluted the source for the water may or may not be.

Using natural sea water probably won't be an issue. The problem is when you do have a problem you'll have difficulty eliminating it as a source of the problem.

Do you know what the salinity level is?

[leebca]

Follow this procedure for setting up and running a quarantine tank: A Quarantine Process (step-by-step)

[mojojones]

So you have no idea how polluted the source for the water may or may not be.

Using natural sea water probably won't be an issue. The problem is when you do have a problem you'll have difficulty eliminating it as a source of the problem.

Do you know what the salinity level is?

The water is Catalina Water Company, it comes from Catalina Island, about 50 mile off our coast, surrounded by reefs, very clean. Salinity is 1.022.

[Seige]

Excellent I hope...

[mojojones]

OK, just an update, found a friend of the family selling fully cured live rock from a 2 year old esatablished tank, bought 42 LBS @ $2.25lb. Put it in the tank, and voila, within 12 hours, NO NITRITES or amonia. Nitrates are 20. After a few hours, I actually started noticing a bunch of tiny feather dusters on the rock, alive and working. Those little suckers are quick when they suck back in. That Damsel sure is something, she already picked a cave and comes out to the glass right when I come to the tank, so I would say she is happy and thriving. I have a question, there are several things on the live rock I want to know what they are. I can describe them as looking identical to spider eggs, seemingly covering holes with a white, fluffy spidery web looking dome. Any idea what they might be?