about to get 1st fish, need advice on procedure

[craqerjaq]

I have a QT set up, aside from a heater which broke. My display is void of fish.

what i want to know is if I can just bypass the QT and move the new fish directly into the new tank after acclimation?

I want to avoid having to keep the fish in the QT for a month and move the fish directly into the display. I will have the QT on hand if needed for any problems that come up still.

[Carissa]

If the fish happens to have ich, that will totally contaminate your main tank. So you might want to consider quarantining them at least for a while. Also consider doing a freshwater dip to remove parasites etc. that will contaminate your tank.


Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes

[leebca]

I would suggest you expand your understanding of why we use a quarantine tank. It isn't just for diseases.

I'd like you to read both these references:
A Quarantine Process (step-by-step)
and
An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

You want to put disease into your display system? If you do, then you will find it very difficult to get it out. Bypassing or shortening the quarantine process is inviting fish diseases, parasites, and pathogens into your display system.

[craqerjaq]

I've already read all that stuff. I'm having a difficult enough time keeping one tank running...I'd prob end up killing the fish in a QT cause I get distracted and forget about things.

You're making it sound like every fish is disease ridden...

So if you have fish in a QT for a month, that's going to get rid of diseases and parasites? How the hell am I supposed to even know if there is something wrong with a fish?

[leebca]

It has been estimated that about 40% of the wild marine fishes contain intestinal parasites. Another 25% have been infected with Marine Ich. About another 5% have Marine Velvet, and lastly there is about another 25% of the Anemeonefishes have brooklynellosis.

When the fish come together at collector's stations, then sold to exporters, then shipped to wholesalers in North America, these fishes have another 25% probability of sharing any one or more of the above diseases with the fishes that didn't have them when they were collected.

Most fish are infected with a condition or disease. Professional aquariums keep all fish quarantined and actually do skin scrapings, gill and fin cuttings and look at them under the microscope not to see if they are infected or have a disease but to identify what disease they have so they can be immediately treated.

Not everyone has the patience, time, ability to learn and understand, memory, available attention, and money to properly take care of marine fishes. I can only suggest then to pick a more suitable hobby. This is a complicated hobby. The hobbyist needs to be a little bit of a: plumber, electrician, biologist, physicist, mathematician, chemist, and into animal husbandry. It's a hobby where attention to detail is the difference between success and failure. Yet many find the hobby very rewarding.

The purpose of quarantine is given in the posts. There are several reasons, one of which is to determine if the fish is healthy. The quarantine process itself doesn't guarantee health, it provides the hobbyist with the opportunity to determine if the fish should be mixed into the display, and the fish many opportunities to adjust, acclimate and become accustomed to captive life. Marine ornamental fishes, unless you choose one of the few dozen that are tank bred, are wild animals.

As for how to determine if a fish is healthy, there is obviously more 'stuff' for you to read and learn: Is The Fish Healthy?

[craqerjaq]

So how do you keep a QT stable? I mean there are no natural filters like in the display, there's no carbon filters, only a small sponge filter...how do I know my QT is even good?

Also when I do get these fish (I'm getting a pair of juvi clowns but not sure what specific type, depends on selection)....what do I feed them and how much? I want to get one of those auto feeders because I know I will need it next month, but those only work for flake food, I remember someone saying to feed other kinds of food...help.

[leebca]

I don't want to repeat everything that was written in this post: A Quarantine Process (step-by-step), so I won't. However QT stability is maintained by using a properly number or size sponge filter, properly seeded and biologically active, testing water daily for ammonia and nitrites, water changes, and since it is bare bottom, siphoning off uneaten foods and wastes when they are visible.

Anemonefishes are omnivores. That means they eat vegetable and meat proteins. Those fish need a mix of those foods. The best are frozen or live foods. You also want to offer marine algae and foods high in spirulina content.

Why are you getting two juvenile fishes? Are you wanting to have a mated pair? If so you don't want two fish of the same size. The larger one is a female and the smaller is the male. When very young, they will fight and try to make one into the male by the other picking on it, sometimes even to death.

Food and feeding is very important if you want to keep the fish healthy for a long time: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

They should be fed three times a day, no less. They should be fed slowly at each feeding, until they are not interested in eating any more.

If you're planning a trip away, someone caring for the fish is needed if you will be gone more than a couple of days. Feeding flake or pellets at that time isn't a concern, for just a couple of days. You just don't want them fed these kinds of food on a regular basis.

[craqerjaq]

Well now I really don't know wtf to do...Ninong said to get 2 juvi clowns to start out...you say don't.

I've already read through that post about feeding...but that doesn't answer my question at all. What specifically do I feed them and how much of it. I need someone to just tell me what to buy...all around cause I don't have a damn clue what I'm doing here.

For feeding while I'm gone, I don't have anyone else to feed the fish and I know I will be taking trips that could easily be 4-6 days in length...so an auto feeder is my ONLY option.

As far as picking a new hobby...I've already dropped at least 600 bucks (not counting the display and stand which I already had) so I'm stuck with it and there's no turning back. If I would quit this...I would end up being so pissed off I would prob never have fish of any kind again...I don't wanna come to that. I just need to know what the hell to do now.

[leebca]

The post tells what foods are good for omnivores and what ratio of plant to animal protein you are looking for.

The least tension between the male and female are when two fishes are put together with at least a 1" length difference. Some species do better when the length difference is at least 1.5 inches. That's what I know from experience.

Many 'two fish the same size' end up bickering so much over which one will be the female that the male often dies or is treated so badly that most hobbyists don't like seeing this. Although small, you run the risk of trying to pair fish from the same parents when the same size are gotten from the same place.

I like to buy one small fish and put it through quarantine and put it into the display system first. Then I follow that with the larger fish (same species) through quarantine and then into the tank.

I suggest you go ahead and try the two juveniles and see how it goes. Not all species and not all fishes will respond the same. The different sizes usually reduces tension between the fishes.

The information is there for you. Keep reading and learning. Have you gotten yourself any books on the subject? There are some fine reads out there: Marine Aquarium Books & Reading

Trying to type posts to someone on how to setup, run and maintain a marine aquarium system is a little like trying to explain to someone how to build, maintain, and run an automobile.

I understand the point about your investment in money. Some of that money can be recovered. However are you sure you want to continue putting money into it? Doesn't seem like you're going to be there much to enjoy the hobby or feed the fish properly. The system itself just can't be left alone for such stretches. Things must be watched and things need daily cleaning. I have a large system and I travel about 30% of the time. While I'm gone I have a neighbor feed three times a day and perform maintenance, and a professional come in weekly for when I'm gone for than 7 days in a row. It's just part of my expense.

[craqerjaq]

When you say things must be watched and need daily cleaning...what are you talking about specifically? You make it seem like I am missing a lot of stuff I should be doing...explain in more detail all these "daily" tasks.

And what I was asking about what food to buy...I mean what food do I buy? I am looking for brand names, links, something that shows me what it is I need to purchase. A breakdown of ratios and plant and animal materials doesn't really tell me what I need to figure out.

Like I said before...I've put too much money into this to just stop and I would not be able to recover any money at all from what I've put in. I'm stuck with it either way. In retrospect I could have saved a grand I'm sure and not done any of this but as I said it's too late for that.

[leebca]

Things that can wrong -- a partial list:

power outage
equipment failure
temperature swings
equipment malfunction (feeder over feeds for example)
lighting fails
something dies and pollutes the tank so the marine life dies before you return home
electrical shortages - sending voltage into tank
poisons (from faulty equipment, equipment malfunctions, etc.)

Things that need regular maintenance and checking:
equipment function (daily)
cleaning filters (mechanical filters cleaned out every other day)
cleaning skimmer (daily)
removing dead things (daily)
removing uneaten food (daily)
inspection of fishes: health of fish (daily); fish getting along (daily); marine life behavior (to pick up signs of poisons, voltage, etc.) (daily)
pH, temperature, specific gravity (daily or twice per day)
water add-back for evaporation (every 3-4 days or sooner)
water chemistries (daily after new addition for a couple of weeks, then weekly)
adjustment of water chemistries (weekly until stable, then monthly or at each water change)

I don't promote specific brand names of foods. You might want to go to the online sponsors of Reefland and look at their frozen foods. Read ingredients. Start another thread and ask people what brands of frozen foods do they feed. You'll get responses of those who feed flake and pellets regularly -- ignore those.

You may have misunderstood the 'recover' part of my e-mail. Yes you've put money into the hobby, but you have equipment that can be resold and in this way, you can recover a portion of your investment. Continuing to put money into the hobby when the hobby may be not the best choice in hobby would be worse, I think.

[Ninong]

Well now I really don't know wtf to do...Ninong said to get 2 juvi clowns to start out...

Whenever I recommend getting two juvenile clowns so that you will eventually end up with a mated pair, I usually point out that it is better if they are not the same size. If I didn't say that in the post that you read, I should have.

[craqerjaq]

thanks lee...you made me realize a couple things and it's better for me to quit this now than wait and struggle and be frustrated with it.

I think I'm gonna get me a kitty instead

[Steven Pro]

It has been estimated that about 40% of the wild marine fishes contain intestinal parasites. Another 25% have been infected with Marine Ich. About another 5% have Marine Velvet, and lastly there is about another 25% of the Anemeonefishes have brooklynellosis.

Lee, do you have a reference for those numbers? I don't doubt them, if anything some seem a bit low to me. I would just love to be able to use a reference such as that.

[leebca]

Sorry Steven. Those are percentages I've gathered from trusted (and informed) importers/wholesalers and only in the Los Angeles area.

I've seen some studies on wild populations, which should be even lower (I would guess, because when the fish come together, the diseases spread and traded to each other). You might want to check literature and studies for that information.