Quarantining after the fact ?!

[fishyNY]

Hello To all,

I've been a lurker on this site for about 2 months now and decided to finally register. I am what you call a salt water aquarium novice. I have learned alot through the articles on this site and intend to be further educated.

2 years ago I started up my 55 gallon(Use to have a tropical tank, years before)Salt aquarium tank with a supposed professional(Took him for start up and lessons) who goes around cleaning fish tanks for a living for the last 20 years. The tank's bio started with a few damsels,coral rock and crushed coral floor, for a few months. The damsels didn't last much after a Cinnamon clown,a tomato clown and a 3 inch porcupine puffer(A month After the clowns were added) were added to the tank. I was warned that the damsels would not last long. I also assumed that the puffer had something to do with that,since he has a voracious appetite(went through a few minnows in seconds).The Pro taught me the ropes for about 4 months ,which included water changes, variety of food feedings , Tank cleaning and all proper salinity ,ammonia and nitrate testing. We added a yellow tang at the 4th month and he sort of cut off ties with me(Didn't return calls on needed advice) then after, since I couldn't afford him. The Tang didn't last beyond 3 months, he became pale and stopped eating, but the clowns and the puffer remained very hardy.Months later, I grew up enough courage to buy another fish from a LFS ,since the remaining fish were doing really well with how I maintained my tank .The Fish was a Fox wrasse, the wrasse was doing real well for a few months, then spent most his time hiding and subsequently died in his 3rd month. For the next 6 months, I didn't bother to add any more fish to my tank. After a year and half I started noticing nip marks on the top of the tomato clown, I assumed at the time that perhaps he scraped himself on the coral rock, playing around with the other clown. This scraping on the top(or perhaps below) of his dorsal fin, has remained going on 8 months. The Cinnamon clown exhibited what looked like a bite(I assumed the puffer bit him)above his lateral line, 5 months ago and some tail nipping a month later.He seemed like he was on his way out.He rested, more then usual and was on his side at times. I added stress coat to the water twice a day, and somehow he recovered to normal and the bite mark is all but gone in 2 months and the tail nipping seemed to improve. 3 months ago I added a brown powder tang and 2 months ago I added a Niger tang(both not bigger then 3 inches).Into 2 months the powder brown tang has exhibited nipping on his dorsal fin(Which got me to this site).

Reading some things on this site, I started up a quarantine tank(it is now ready to go, used shrimp food). I also read about fin/tail rot, which I assume my clowns have. I also have read contrary to my Simon and Shuster book on my porcupine puffer who is generally very peaceable that he might take a nip (I've never seen him do it)at someone. I also learned that he can grow to 36 inches, which makes me rethink on how professional my guide guy was, since he said that my tank should hold 5 or 6 fish easy with him being part of it. In his 6 visits to my house he never mentioned a quarantine tank to me either.All this I learned through here.

More about the tank and feedings: I have a Eheim 2215 filter , 2 aquaclear 30 gal powerheads, an oldschool whisper air filter I run all the time.Fluorescent hood light 6 hours per day. Water changes and algae scraping every 3 weeks, Filter cleaning with new ammo carb every 3-4 months.Ammonia, Salinity nitrate are normal.Nitrite range 0-0.20 (I read that you really can't achieve a 0 with tap water and buffer).Feedings consists of flake food greens or assorted flakes with either Tetramarine saltwater granules or spirulina pellets in morning. At night they get frozen food, a combination of one of the following ...SF Bay brand cubes of marine cuisine,Brine shrimp, Mysis shrimp, Bloodworms and Krill mostly for my puffer, these get combined with a green, either SF brand emerald entree or Ocean Nutrition formula 2 pellets. I do want to introduce a natural green for the Tang to feed on ...he has declined on dried seaweed off clip feeder and romaine lettuce tied to a rock. The clowns eat everything but the krill, the tang eats everything but the krill ad flake food, the trigger eats everything , the puffer declines on flake food and pellets.All the fish remain very hardy at feeding time.

I read allot on quarantining fish before they enter the main aquarium, but didn't catch the remedy on what you do if 3 of the 5 fish in the main tank may have some sort of disease or may have 2 diff diseases. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance !

[vio]

Sorry to hear troubles are what brought you to this site but welcome. For starters some of your troubles my be coming from the fact that you have three fish that grow to very large sizes (12 inches +) in what is relatively a small tank. This can be causing a lot of stress on all inhabitants. Also puffers and triggers are aggressive fish which I dont think would pair very well with a tang or clownfish who just look delicious to a large predator. This aggression can possibly be curbed by proper diet and nutrition of your fish which it seems you are a lacking a bit in that area. I suggest you check out the articles on fish care and feeding to determine what to feed them to sustain all their dietary needs. Also when you say coral rock does that mean live rock? And what are your tank levels (temp, ph, salinity, no2, no3, nh4)? This information can probably net you some more precise help.

[fishyNY]

Thank you,for the reply !

My water temp is 75-76, salinity 1.0 , PH 8.0 (Just added buffer to raise it beyond 8.0), Ammonia 0 , Nitrite 0, Nitrate 15 ppm !

From reading about "Rock" on this site, I come to a conclusion that the Coral Rock was a Base Rock, Most of these rocks started very clean off white and now have much darker tan coloration( I remember that the fish "Pro" that got me it..said that he has some customers, give him theirs to bleach them!)anyhow, some have algae(green) growth on them.

ON feedings, I forgot to mention that I add Vita Chem liquid vitamin drops to each frozen meal, every night.

Also,on the over stocking of fish(Contrary to the original advice I had received from my hired "Pro" help) after the fact , I intended to get a bigger tank to replace this one which has some glass scratches and now with knowledge of actual size range of fish to size of tank, I would like to do that.

Compatibility, as you mentioned..I read articles on introducing more aggressive types, as last fish entering an already inhabited aquarium. Also reading that getting those fish, smaller ,then the inhabitants, which I did.The clowns were indeed bigger then the Niger Trigger(least aggressive trigger) and the Tang.

As for the puffer, Indeed puffers are aggressive, But a porcupine puffer , such I have , Is indeed VERY Peaceable with his tank mates.He hovers and goes about his business without showing aggression at any point even though he has surpassed the clowns size by a couple of inches. The clowns sleep a mere 2 inches away from him, the 3 have lived in the tank for almost 2 years. Contrary, to the mix plate that I have , there is no territorial aggression from any one fish to another, so far , from my hours of observation.

I am concerned(As the descriptions I read here) with fin/tail rot and on how to cure, given the fact that my main tank may possess these parasites. Even though the puffer and the trigger don't possess any blemishes that I can see.

I have a QT ready!

Thanks again!

[leebca]

I read allot on quarantining fish before they enter the main aquarium, but didn't catch the remedy on what you do if 3 of the 5 fish in the main tank may have some sort of disease or may have 2 diff diseases. Any suggestions?

When the main display system is contaminated by parasites or diseases, then, depending on the pathogen, AND sometiimes depending upon the extent of the ailment, either all or some fish need treatment.

For instance, since Marine Ich and Marine Velvet are the types of parasites that live on and off the fish, the tank is contaminated. All fish exposed have to be treated for this.

If the pathogen is fish specific, like some external flukes, then only those fishes need treatment.

If the pathogen is in a grey area, like worms, internal flukes, etc., then it is best to treat all fishes.

In the case of normal salt water bacteria, all fish are exposed to them, however marine fishes have different levels of defenses against 'common bacteria.'

So the reply that is best is, 'It depends.' If you're speaking of fin/tail rot, then these are usually caused by common bacteria. A minor problem can be handled by making an improvement of water quality and diet. This will often bring them around. Perform large (over 60%) water changes of the display system every other day AND improve the diet of the fish. For both of these, follow these guidelines:
How to Make a Successful Water Change
and
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

However, if the fish's condition is severe, the fish should be removed from the display and given antibiotics. BUT this still means corrective action has to be taken in the display system to fix what is wrong -- water quality, environment, and/or nutrition.

The fin/tail rot condition is just an example.

[fishyNY]

Thank you very much for the advice , very informative!

When I went to a saltwater fish supply store(A store re-surfaced in my neighborhood as a retailer formally a wholesaler), looking to get a few buckets of Salt,I mentioned the problem I have and the advice you gave me to the person working there. He winced saying that it didn't guarentee the removal of the parasites/disease, Saying through his 30 years of experience he would advise me to use Coppersafe(Get a copper kit to measure the dosage also), saying that since I have no Live Reef/Rock or shell fish and I have 3 fish I believe are effected, A proper dosage in the tank would kill all parasites, not effect my fish and biological system. He further explained that once the parasites are gone, through his experience, all fish experiencing, fish and tail rot will show regeneration within the curing time of the month. He did say that on the internet there is a strong resistance to this method(Which I read your post on it)..He banked his 30 year of experience on it and said that he also learned off of a very important person in the saltwater aquarium community...So bank on this advice! It also made no business sense to me that he blew a $100 + sale for a sub $15 sale, had I not believed him. I further viewed the some 25-30 tanks(Some as big as 300 gallon) he had on display, none of the fish exhibited any issue. I asked if I should use Maracyn or Maracyn 2, with the Copper, he advised against it.

I have used the dosage of Coppersafe in the main tank !

I will let you know of my results!

I have taken your advice on the food regiment and found a few things interesting in your post. I intend to make some of my own mixture of fish food/vitamin supplement via some local Chinese/Japanese supermarkets and LFS for , since many types of food are not readily available at the local LFS. I have seen several videos on the internet on making this food and packaging it for later consumption.

Thank you again!