New hobbyist, new on reefland.com

**wkp42** · 01-09-2010, 05:08 PM

Hello all, I started my 47gallon fish tank roughly 8 weeks ago. The first week I did nothting but put in my salt water and 25lbs of substrate and let the tank cycle with a biowheel filter system. To the end of the second week I added 52lbs of fiji rock and left it alone for roughly 2 weeks. At this point I began testing and added a 4 striped and yellowtail damsel. After they lived for a week (which is the 5th week) I added a royal gramma. A week later I removed the damsels and the bio wheel and added a pair of tru perculas and a CPR back pack skimmer. A week later (7th week) I added a chocolate chip star fish, 2 hermit crabs, a condy anemone and a 6 line wrasse. This week I added 40lbs or premium rock from a 6 year old reef tank and a pearscale butterfly fish. So........after 8 weeks my 47 gallon tank has 25lbs of live substrate, 90lbs of rock, CPR back pack skimmer, 1-15 watt daylight flourescent, 1-15watt atinic flourescent, 1-15watt 10k kelvin flourescent, 2 Hydor 400/gph power heads, a pair of true perculas, royal gramma (which I have not seen for 2 days), a 6line wrasse, choco chip star, 2 hermits, 1 condy (which stays on top of one of my rocks roughly 6 inches away from the daylight bulb), and a pearscale butterfly. Water parems are salinity 1.021, temp 75-79, ph 8.4, amonia 0, nitrite0, nitrate 20. Here are my concerns-I have not seen my royal gramma for 2 days (even when feeding) and pearscale butterfly hides all the time except for a quick swim/dart to another hiding spot. The butterfly also seems to have a high gill rate. I assume the tank has ich because the LPS that I got the damsels from had ich in some of their tanks. I did not get any of the current things in the tank from that same LPS. I am treating the tank as directed with Ruby Reef kick ich. Since I added most of my current fish in a 2 week period and was uneducated at the time I did not quaratine. You live and learn. I do not see signs of ich but I am wondering if ich killed my gramma and that's why I have not seen her in 2 days. But shouldnt my nitrate be like 100ppm with a dead fish? I am also wondering if the butterfly is hiding and having high gill rate because of ich, even though I see no spots on her. What's you guys thoughts? Also I added a thick patch of hair algae in the return section of the skimmer that I got out of a friends tank so the water flows through it before returning to tank......good/bad? Thanks for input. p.s I have been dropping fresh raw peices of squid and clam for the butterfly. They usually disapeer overnight and based on their size I assume she is eating it and not my tiny hermits. Thanks....

**Steve McKay** · 01-09-2010, 06:08 PM

Welcome to Reefland.Sounds like you have a FOWLR tank and should post in Saltwater (Fish Only) Aquariums Forum.You added fish before your tank cycled,you don't use fish to cycle a tank.If the lfs (not lps) had ick in the tanks why did you buy the fish?The high gill rate is probably caused be excessive ammonia or nitrite.I could go on,your best bet is to go to Saltwater (Fish Only) Aquariums Forum and read ALL the sticky's at the top of the page.Good luck.

**Ninong** · 01-09-2010, 08:31 PM

Hi wkp42,

I'll move this thread for you to Lee's forum, especially since you think you may have a problem with marine ich (Cryptocaryon irritans. I don't think Ruby Reef Kick Ich is effective.

I don't think it was such a good idea to put a Condylactis gigantea anemone in a tank with three 15w fluorescent tubes. They require more intense lighting than that.

I'm sure Lee will agree with me that you're really pushing the limits of what can be kept in a 47-gal tank. For starters, you have to take into consideration that you already have a lot of live rock in there (92 lbs), so that limits the available space for fish to move around. While I think that a pearlscale butterflyfish (Chaetodon xanthurus) is a very beautiful fish, I think it would be better off in a somewhat larger tank.

Just in case you were thinking of turning this tank into a reef tank at some point in the future, you need to know that both the pearlscale butterflyfish and the chocolate chip sea star (Protoreaster nodosus) are corallivores. The chocolate chip is also a potential threat to eat small fish, if it can ambush them while they are sleeping. The condy anemone is another threat to small fish -- or even medium sized fish -- once it gets larger. As its name, gigantea, implies, it gets pretty big. It's definitely not a good idea to keep one of these in a tank with percula clownfish. It's extremely unlikely that they would ever accept it as a surrogate host and it's a potential threat to them.

I'll let Lee give you some tips on how to resolve your other issues.

Good luck!

**wkp42** · 01-10-2010, 09:15 PM

Ok, so I have lived and learned. I now have a 10 gallon hospitol tank set up and will be using formailn/malachite green to treat my fish. I Got the water from my display tank, added a heater, air stone, and plastic decoration. As for the other tank I am completely buying a new 55gallon tank. I will be buying RO salt water from the local pet store and new substrate. I do however want to use the same live rock and protein skimmer from the old tank (which had ich in it) How can i kill any ich that my have fallen off my fish and landed on the rock or possibly got into the skimmer before putting it in my new tank?? If I leave the ich out of water for 3 days will it kill the ich? Wont it also kiil anything live in the rock that may be beneficial? What do I do to my rock so I can kill any ich on it but avoid killing "live" part of the rock? Help....thanks

**leebca** · 01-11-2010, 02:40 AM

I don't know where you're getting advice (e.g., for treatment) from, but I would definitely not take any further advice from them.

As Ninong pointed out, what you have done is not curing. What you are about to do is also, not curing. Back up and read this and follow it closely:
Curing Fish of Marine Ich

As pointed out. Too many fish in too small of space put in too quickly. This is how the setup should go:
Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

As pointed out in the above, I don't like to see those Stars in tanks under 75 gallons. As for other stocking tips, please read this:
Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR

Good luck!

**wkp42** · 01-13-2010, 11:23 PM

Lots of reading, what an assignment. In the process of deciding on bulbs Quick question about lighting, on my new 55 gallon tank. The lighting setup is a coralife 4x65 PC. I want to grow some low light requiring corals/anemones/mushrooms/ect. What bulbs should I get for both growth and look? 2 actinics and 2 6.7k? 2 10k? 4 50/50? What light combo will give me enough lumens? If i did 2 actinics and 2 6.7k would the tank look green/yellow under the 6.7k's and blue under the actinics (from the side)? If I did 2 10k's would it still put off a reasonable amount of lumens vs. the 6.7k? What about 4 50/50's? Will that give me a nice blueish/white glow and enough lighting? I am leaning towards 2 atinics and 2 10k's? Please give me your opinion from experience for both look and growth......Thanks!

**wkp42** · 01-13-2010, 11:24 PM

By the way I found adoptive parents for my fish for a few months until I get them an acceptable home built.

**Ninong** · 01-13-2010, 11:36 PM

I think you will prefer the two actinics and two 10,000K's best.

**wkp42** · 01-14-2010, 10:11 PM

So today I set up my new tank 55gal long, drilled with overflow, Amiracle sump, oceanrunner 3500 return pump, excalibur skimmer in sump w/ rio 800, maxjet 1200 in tank and kolair 5 in tank, heater with built in thermostat in sump. I actually brought the water that was in this tank (it was a 1year old setup with healthy corals and fish in it) home with me (he gave away all his corals and fish between when I went to look at tank and went to help break it down and buy it). I put this water back in the tank tonight with the same substrate and same rock he had in it (transported substrate and rock in buckets of water). There were healthy fish in the tank when I went and looked at the tank and none appeared to have any issues whatsoever and he had those fish for several months. I am going to let the tank sit there and run for several weeks before adding fish/other (after my bad experience of rushing my other tank) but my question is was I wrong in using his water/substrate/rocks? Versus buying all new? The water was clear within 3-4 hours of setting up the tank. So.........do you all think I made a bad move using the tanks established water/substrate/rock up re-setup of the tank?

Thanks Ninong for responding about lights. After other research I have decided thats what I will do. I also found a 5th PC that is an EZ ballast stand alone fixture. For this 5th bulb should I do another 10k (for a total of 3 10k's and 2 atinics)? The bulb mounts are in the front of the canopy so it will be the first light spectrum seeing when looking into the tank. Maybe 50/50? But I also want it to help grow stuff.

**Ninong** · 01-15-2010, 08:54 AM

You will be okay with either another actinic or another 10,000K tube for your fifth fluorescent lamp. Lee will address your other questions.

**wkp42** · 01-17-2010, 02:31 PM

I never heard from Lee about using the water from the original set up....
So today I set up my new tank 55gal long, drilled with overflow, Amiracle sump, oceanrunner 3500 return pump, excalibur skimmer in sump w/ rio 800, maxjet 1200 in tank and kolair 5 in tank, heater with built in thermostat in sump. I actually brought the water that was in this tank (it was a 1year old setup with healthy corals and fish in it) home with me (he gave away all his corals and fish between when I went to look at tank and went to help break it down and buy it). I put this water back in the tank tonight with the same substrate and same rock he had in it (transported substrate and rock in buckets of water). There were healthy fish in the tank when I went and looked at the tank and none appeared to have any issues whatsoever and he had those fish for several months. I am going to let the tank sit there and run for several weeks before adding fish/other (after my bad experience of rushing my other tank) but my question is was I wrong in using his water/substrate/rocks? Versus buying all new? The water was clear within 3-4 hours of setting up the tank. So.........do you all think I made a bad move using the tanks established water/substrate/rock up re-setup of the tank?

**leebca** · 01-17-2010, 05:09 PM

I didn't see the question.

Using the old water and rock is okay. If there is disease in the the previous tank, then the fish are just as good at carrying it as the substrate, water, rocks, and decorations.

Going slowly is the key and like you wrote, this is a good time to just stop changing things and let things settle -- for a few months! Practice controlling the water quality

**wkp42** · 01-17-2010, 08:02 PM

Ninong, will one 65 watt pc 10k and one 65 pc actinic be ok while I cycle my tank to keep coraline alive? I don't want to waste light bill $monies I don't have to while I am just cycling my tank. Also as for the bulbs (the ones I have are the ones that came with the tank and are 1yr old and in dire need of replacement) since the bulbs will run me over $130 to replace all four I am considering putting that towards a T5 HO fixture that comes with bulbs. The fixtures I have been shopping come with 2 12k bulbs and 2 460actinic bulbs, and 4 led moon lights, and individual reflectors. This is only 216 watt fixture though vs. a 260 watt from the PC setup. I have read that the T5 will run coller, less electricity and more usable lumens even though it is less wattage. Is this true or should I keep the PC and just get new bulbs?

Thanks Lee for your post reply, patience is hard but I learned the hard way after stressing many fish to death of a cycling tank

and giving away others.

Here are pics