new guy need help!!!

[mikea1980]

hi, im new to this site and new to a saltwater fish tank, but im trying hard and i want it to last! Ok so here goes.....I have a 55gallon fishtank with a wet dry filter and a protein skimmer. I set the tank up 3 weeks ago using live sand. I let the tank run for about a week and introduced a trigger and a grouper into the tank as per the guy at the fish store to speed up the cycling progress..it has been 2 weeks since the fish were introduced into the tank and my reading on the ph is 8.3, ammonia 2.0 and nitrites at 5.0....should i be concerned or is this the jump in elevations and they will lower themselves? should i do a water change? the fish are eating and look healthy and i want to keep it that way but these readings are scaring me. thanks for your help in advance!

[Parrothead]

I'm gonna make this real simple:

Read all the stickys posted above your thread, they are there to give you important information about setting up a fo, fowlr, etc.

Never use live fish to cycle a tank, if you lfs told you to do this, find a different store, odds are 50/50 that those two fish will survive the cycle. Try to find a home for them or return them to the store for credit or storage, keep in mind, on the credit side you will not get back what you paid for them,

You mention nothing about live rock only that you have a wet/dry with a skimmer, I'm assuming the bio balls are still in it, if you are doing fish only, that would be fine, but if you are planninig fowlr, you need to get some live rock in the tank and remove the bio-balls, the rock and sand are your bio filter in a fowlr

with your amm and nitrites readings, you are in the cycle, don't change any water, just top off the tank with plain ro/di water to make up for evaporation.

Again, before going any further please read the stickys, they will help you alot

[Ninong]

Hi midea1980,




Lee will respond with advice for you as soon as he comes back on the board; however, your present condition is NOT good at all, so I will offer my two cents worth now.

I let the tank run for about a week and introduced a trigger and a grouper into the tank as per the guy at the fish store to speed up the cycling progress.

This was NOT a good idea at all. You need to stop taking advice from "the guy at the fish store" because he is obviously giving you TERRIBLE advice. Really, really terrible advice.

..it has been 2 weeks since the fish were introduced into the tank and my reading on the ph is 8.3, ammonia 2.0 and nitrites at 5.0....should i be concerned...

Yes, you should be concerned. Your fish are in a very bad environment. I would recommend a large (perhaps 50-60%) immediate water change. Let's see what Lee suggests.

What about your trigger and grouper? Do you know exactly which species your have? Some groupers can get really big. Are you sure these fish are appropriate for a 55-gallon aquarium?

Let's see what Lee suggests you should do but in the meantime, I would start mixing up a large batch of new saltwater.

Good luck!



P.S. -- Another option would be to remove both the trigger and the grouper and get them into a healthy tank and then allow your tank to cycle first before adding any fish to it. Do you have any live rock in this tank with the live sand or is it just live sand and artificial decorations???

Even if there is no live rock, there are ways to cycle such a tank without using live fish. That amounts to cruel and unusual punishment and only the most uninformed LFS employee would suggest something like this.

[mikea1980]

I beleive it is a humu trigger and the grouper i am not sure. The fish store guy told me since i used live sand and that these fish are so hardy that they should be fine and they would "speed up" the cycling process. And yes i have live sand with artificial decorations. The wet dry has bio balls. It is very aggrevating to me now knowing this! 2 different stores told me the same thing that i could put fish in the tank since i used the live sand. It is kinda weird too because last week the 2 fish were kind of just hiding out and the past couple of days they have been more active, with the trigger especially darting all over back and forth all day.

[mikea1980]

also my specific gravity seems to be alittle high too.....if i do a water change am i back to square one with cycling the tank all over again? or are these high readings the spikes that ive been reading about that will begin to drop rapidly? I am running a seaclone protein skimmer too....im assuming to keep that running as well correct?

[mikea1980]

the grouper is a miniatus grouper

[Parrothead]

Quote:
..it has been 2 weeks since the fish were introduced into the tank and my reading on the ph is 8.3, ammonia 2.0 and nitrites at 5.0....should i be concerned...
Yes, you should be concerned. Your fish are in a very bad environment. I would recommend a large (perhaps 50-60%) immediate water change. Let's see what Lee suggests.


Ninong,

I think he is probably reading the test kit results wron, I just looked at my basic api, and 5.0 nitrite reading is the last before falling off the scale, I don't believe anything would be alive at that high of a reading, he needs to retest and post the results again

[Parrothead]

Both fish will quickly out grow a 55. Bad Choice cycling with fish and bad choice in fish for your tank,,,,,Sorry

[mikea1980]

The test kit that i have the color chart to match the results with look so similar so its either a 1 or a 5. I retested the ammonia today and it is at a 1.0 as well...

[Ninong]

Mike,

My concern is based on your report of "ammonia 2.0 and nitrites at 5.0." Both ammonia and nitrite are quite toxic to fish. While it's true that some fish can survive such conditions, it's definitely not a good way to cycle any aquarium.

Lee has already posted several sticky threads at the beginning of this forum and his forum on marine fish disease that offer advice on how to set up and manage a fish-only aquarium. Personally I prefer live rock to artificial decorations but I realize live rock is expensive. You may want to add some live rock gradually, just a little at a time (provided it is already fully cured before you add it to your aquarium).

I'm surprised that you would still have 2.0 ammonia and 5.0 nitrite two weeks after adding these two fish, especially since you started out with what they call live sand. How large are these two fish?

[mikea1980]

the trigger is about 3-4 inches and the grouper is about 3". Both fish were purchased at a saltwater fish store. The "live sand" was bought at petco and im having doubts that it was alive because the sand was dry it wasnt wet like ive read it shouldve been...

[Ninong]

Right now your aquarium has been set up for three weeks, including two weeks with those two small to medium-sized fish, so it should be building up a nice colony of beneficial bacteria. These nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria are setting up shop in your sand bed and your bioballs. All of your ammonia (plus nitrite and nitrate) is coming from your two fish since you don't have any live rock that could possibly be responsible for ammonia from die-off.

I would just hazard a guess that at this stage in time your ammonia should be closer to around 0.5 ppm and your nitrite should be down around 1.0 or less. Since I have no experience at all with fish-only aquariums without any live rock, I will defer to whatever advice Lee has for you but I think I would still do a water change of at least 30%.

[mikea1980]

SHould i be looking for a UV sterilizer yet? I do not have one of them and the fish guys told me to get one after the tank cycles?

[leebca]

Regarding the UV, be informed before you decide. Please read this post:
UV for U and Me

Most others have provided good recommendations during my short absence here on the Forum. Until ammonia and nitrites are 'none detected' then the tank isn't ready for corals or fishes.

[mikea1980]

Thanks, but Lee which advice do i take? LEt the tank continue to cycle or do a water change?

[rluix]

I believe that if you have a skimmer, you don't need a filter, nor should have, as the live sand/rocks act as a biological Filter.

[leebca]

If you still have fish in the aquarium, then you need to perform large and frequent water changes. If there were no fish in the tank, which ideally at this stage, there would be none, the water changed would just be those that are 'normal' to your maintenance.

If there are fish or sensitive organisms in the tank, then make large water changes according to these guidelines: How to Make a Successful Water Change.

Back up and start setting up from near the beginning of this post:
Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

[mikea1980]

Lee will doing a large waterchange be counter productive to completing the cycle??

[leebca]

Not noticeably. The poisons (wastes produced) is ongoing so the bacteria food source is continuing. The bacteria will continue to grow and expand in population. Their growth and population doesn't depend upon what food is just sitting around, but also what and how much of it is being produced.

[mikea1980]

Hey guys thanks for your advice.....i have done 3 water changes since posting. Last. My ammonia is at 0 ph is good nitrates are at 10 but my nitrites dont look like they have come down too much...they are at about .5. Will the nitrites come down on their own? Or should i do more water changes?