new SW fish tank (5 months old) Clean the filters?

[Christina]

Im fairly new at this, and learning more every day. I have a 90 gal tank with 2 Emperor 400 hang on filters. about 70 lbs of live rock. My question is about cleaning the filters. At first I was cleaning it with ever water change. My LFS told me to stop in Dec. He said not to clean them, they never clean thiers. Well, The filters are gross. I am sure they need cleaned, however when I pulled one out today, it is full of copodes. Tons and tons. Must have been a safe breeding ground for them. Both filters are full of them.Now what? Break them down and clean them? I think that the uncleaned filters are keeping my nitrates at 20 ppm, I cant seem to get it down much below that. I wanted the pods in the tank, but how do I get the buggers out? I am hoping to one day have a mandrian. I really could use any advise.

Thanks,
Christina

[leebca]

Just some general observations (and answers) about your post.

1. It seems like you think you need or have to have pods for maintaining a Mandarin. Not true. In fact, you MUST NOT depend upon tank pods to keep a Mandarin. Please read this: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine...tml#post186916

2. The filters you describe are in part mechanical filters. They are there to remove floating debris. If this is right, then that part of them needs frequent cleaning. If your biological filter is your substrate, live rock, decorations, and you have sufficient circulation, then those hang on filters are not biological. You leave biological filters alone for long periods; you clean mechanical filters routinely.

The more debris you let sit in your aquarium decomposing the more problems you will have. Pod life comes and goes (waxes and wanes). The fact that they are so prevalent suggests to me there is too much 'left over' dirt/wastes in your aquarium. You might want to review good maintenance procedures:
Check electrical and plumbing every day
Make routine water changes
Clean mechanical filter every other day
Clean skimmer every day
Clean 1/3 of the substrate every month (so that it takes 3 months to clean it all)
Clean off rocks and decorations every 6 months
Change chemical filter per the type of chemical being used
Change other filters as needed or every couple of days.
etc.

[Christina]

Thank you for your feedback. I will clean the filters ASAP. I was sure that it wasnt great to leave them uncleaned, having the live rock and all, but My LFS is my only source of info at the time. And yes I was under the impression that the mandrians would only eat pods. Im not in any hurry to run out and grab one anyway, so I will for sure research it much more in the comming months. I have been doing 15- 20 gal water changes about every 3 weeks regularly, with gravel vac, but not touching the filters. I hope this helps.

Thanks Again.
Christina

[Christina]

If you dont mind, can I ask another question, since my LFS sort of led me down the wrong path on the cleaning issue? I cleaned the emperor 400's tonight, both of them. Removed all the carbon, and placed 2 new blue sponge filters, and cleaned the other two. There were copode eggs, larve and adults everywhere. Along with a ton of debre. It was a big job, but will be easier with proper care I am sure.

Is it a good idea to just clean the filters, or put new ones in? And how often should I put activated carbon in, if at all (LFS told me I didnt need it, eiter one) I thought I was doing pretty well at keeping my tank, but now I am rethinking that.

Thanks for your help.
Christina

[ToddTT]

If you dont mind, can I ask another question, since my LFS sort of led me down the wrong path on the cleaning issue? I cleaned the emperor 400's tonight, both of them. Removed all the carbon, and placed 2 new blue sponge filters, and cleaned the other two. There were copode eggs, larve and adults everywhere. Along with a ton of debre. It was a big job, but will be easier with proper care I am sure.

Is it a good idea to just clean the filters, or put new ones in? And how often should I put activated carbon in, if at all (LFS told me I didnt need it, eiter one) I thought I was doing pretty well at keeping my tank, but now I am rethinking that.

Thanks for your help.
Christina

Good sponge filters never need to be replaced, IMHO. And if you have multiple, it is good practice to clean only one at a time.

If you only have one, cleaning it in saltwater will preserve a lot of the good bacteria.

Running carbon is okay once in a while, but for a properly maintained and healthy system, should not be necessary.

[leebca]

I don't know all the equipment you have in your system. Do you use a skimmer? If you do, then you are removing some of the organics from your system by this process. In this case, the use of carbon is necessary to remove the organics that the skimmer doesn't remove.

If you are not using a skimmer, then the use of carbon has to perform the double function of removing and controlling the build up of organics in the system.

The amount of carbon and its proper maintenance and use is based upon what kind of system (equipment) you have, and the bio-load on the system, and your maintenance (including but not limited to water changes (size and frequency) and general system clean up).

However, either way you don't prefer to change out all the carbon at the same time. You would like to change out half of it regularly. Since you have two filters, this should make this very easy to manage. For instance, IF you have a skimmer: You want to be changing out half the carbon every other week, so that half of it in use for 4 weeks before it gets changed out. Without a skimmer, this has to be stepped up. The quantity also has to increase.

So if you want to provide more info I can better help. I should also know ALL the living things in your aquarium (other than pods and benthic creatures). I need to know the system layout -- do you have a sump, a refugium, any other add-ons, and all pumps (and their g/hr flow ratings) inside and out.

Today's home marine aquarium needs to have a: mechanical, biological, and chemical filter for the best success.

Regarding the filter, it sort of depends. Some filters are so inexpensive, you have to decide for yourself whether you want to spend the time cleaning them or not. In this particular case (of not having cleaned them for quite some) I would have chosen to toss them out. Keep in mind that when you change filter or put in any new item/equipment, it should be cleaned ahead of time (even if new). You should read this post I wrote for this purpose: Marine System Clean Up Recommendations

With the proper amount of live rock, decorations (surface area) and substrate present, the biological filter is handled inside the display tank. But if the mechanical filter has 'taken over' the biological filter function, then be aware that cleaning it too thoroughly can be a disaster. Like the carbon replacement, such a filter should be 'half cleaned' at any one time.

You're always invited to ask as many questions as you have/like. I only ask you read the links I provide! Deal? If you want to ask new questions not related to this thread's topic, I prefer if you begin a new thread. It helps keep things manageable and easily found by others looking for posts on specific subject.

[Christina]

I am not currently using a skimmer. I went to the LFS in Nov asking about adding one to my system, and he convienced me that I didnt need one. I will look into that one further very soon. I do not have a sum, just the 2 emperor 400s. I have a very basic setup compaired to most I read about on here. I have about 70 lbs of live rock, fiji and totuka, 20 lbs of base rock, 2 large coral looking ornaments, on crushed coral substrate. I have a regal blue tang, a yellow tang, a flame angel, a 6 linned wrasse, a green chromis, a blue damsel, 2 true perc in a BTA, a large BTserpant sea star, a purple lobster, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 turbo snail, 1 astrea snail, and about 2 doz small hermets.

LFS considers me an over feeder. I feed frozen brine shirmp once a day, formula one flakes once a day, a 2X3 sheet of seaweed with garlic every other day, and a minced up shimp or scallop (raw) twice a week to the lobster, sea star, and BTA, and cleanershrimp. Oh and occaisionally drop a few sinking shrimp pellets to the sea star and shrimp (hermets clean up the rest)

I have read every link you have posted, and consider them very helpful.

Thank you
Christina
I forgot to add the emperor 400's are each rated 400 gph. (from web site)

[leebca]

What is your water changing amount and frequency?

Once I get the above I can address the other concerns you might have. But in the meantime the one post you haven't read (obviously) is this one:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition
another one you need to read:
How To Feed Macro Alage to Marine Fishes

The foods/feeding isn't optimal. The feeding of pellet foods and flakes should be minimal or not at all. Feeding brine shrimp is pretty much useless. Stop it. You can obtain gut load brine shrimp (loaded with fats and/or vitamins and/or spirulina) which is good for a few feedings out of every 21. You'll get more info on these foods and nutrition things from the above. The feeding of marine algae needs to increase to twice a day. Again, more info from the (second link) above.

If either or both of the Tangs are longer than 2.5" they don't belong in that sized aquarium. About 2.5" to 4" they need a 125 or one that is at least 6 feet long. When they get over 4" they should be in an aquarium of 8 feet or more. And, BTW, they will grow to these lengths.

A skimmer isn't required, but it is generally a good idea when there is going to be a high amount of organics in the water, like your over feeding and it being a heavily loaded fish bio-load. In general a beginning hobbyist with a 90 should have one.

As a general comment, I think you're getting less than good advice on the hobby.

[Christina]

I think I was getting less than good advice on the hobby as well, but thats why Im here. Thank you for having patients with me as I learn.


Well, rethink it all I will! I have to admit that I have scanned over the first link before, how ever didnt take the time to read as much detail As I just did. There is a ton of info and I had to read it nearly 5 times just to grasp some of the info I needed. When I read it before this is pretty much what I got out of it "flakes are ok, occaisionally, and spirilla fed brine shrimp are ok, and feed algea stips" Because that was specifially what I was looking for before. Now I will rethink. I began giving more flakes, because the fish still seemed hungry to me. You have now taught me why! Thank you. I will go out today, and get more variety of the algea and research what to do besides the frozen hikari sprilla fed brine shrimp that I had been feeding once a day. I had never came acroos the second link before today, or I would have fed the tangs much better.

As for water changes, I am currently changing 15-20 gallons from my 90 gal system every three weeks. After reading so many conflicting posts, websites and my LFS, I settled on this number myself, no real reason other than Some told me 2 weeks and some monthy. Last water change on wednesday was 20 gal. Then I cleaned the filters on Friday night. Today I will get 2 more fresh filters, (I put two new ones in on Friday on one of the filters) and get some fresh carbon to put in the media containers. I will also look into the skimmer again.

This is sad to hear that my tangs will soon out grow my tank, as they are by far my favorite. I like nothing more than to sit and watch the two play. THe blue tang loves to pick up hermit crabs take them to the top of the tank and drop them. My tank is 48 inches long, and like 18 wide an 22 deep, I think? If it were just adding volume, a nice big sump would add more water, but I cant do anything about the 2 more feet of swimmng space right now. Most everything I read until now, (not everything, but most) indicated that the tangs would be ok in the 90. I guess I will have to cross that bridge someday soon. The are both smaller right now, with the blue might strech to 4 in right now , the yellow is less than half his length.Thanks you for the advise.

Christina

[Parrothead]

Christina,

Here is a good skimmer to look into, the AquaC remora pro with the mag 3 pump.

Listen to lee, he's one of the good guys


Welcome to reeflands

[leebca]

With the added info I can address the carbon.

As mentioned, change half of it when you change it. Without a skimmer I would tend to make more frequent and/or larger water changes. But what you've chosen can be accommodated by the use of additional carbon. Not sure if your filters will hold it, however.

You want to use about a total of 0.8 pounds (when dry) of activated carbon. Change out half of it every 7 days.

The food post is daunting, I know. It was my first post. I probably shared too much information. But you should note that there is an attachment to it. You should download/print that attachment out. It is a fair summary in table form that you might find useful.

Try to stick to as many frozen marine fish foods as you can and read the ingredients. Don't use foods with land products in it. Feed three times a day until they seem less interested, uninterested (or playing) with the food. After a while you can tell this in your fish, like a mother can tell when their baby is done eating. ;)