Help concerning a sump.

[Francois]

Hey everyone, I'm about to set up a 55 gallon FO tank with NO LR for many reasons. I plan on having a sump. I bought 2 ten gallon tanks, and here's the deal, I'm trying to come up with a good sump design.

So, I'll be using a skimmer, bio-bale and a refugium.

So, first question, should I put the skimmer before the bio-bale? cuz, since those can become nitrate factories, it's better to filter compounds before they go through the bio media.

So, I'm guessing I would have the overflow drain into filter pads, then, the water would be skimmed.

Here comes the next question, would it be ok to attach PVC to the output of the skimmer, and have the water trickle into a bucket with the bio media, so that, only very clean water would go through the bio bale.

Concening overflow box, I'm hesitating between two eshopps box, one with 800 gph, the other with 900. Except the 900 has two u tubes. Which one seems more appropriate for my tank.

Then, the water would drain into a tube, which would then be split, and some water would go to the left side of the sump, where the refugium is, and the on the other side, the water would drain on the filter pads. The return pump would be in the middle of the sump, receiving water from refugium, and from bio-bale.

Also, do you guys think a refugium is a good idea for me. I'm guessing it would be helpful to get rid of the nitrates, but what else?

My stock list would be something like,

flame angel, blue tang, humu (which would be removed WHEN TOO BIG), clownfish...

thank you, and hopefully, my questions will be answered.

[ToddTT]

Skip the trigger (and the tang). Relocating a fish multiple times is not fair to the fish, and very stressful. Not to mention he'll be harder to relocate when he gets bigger and more ornery.

This is a selfish hobby. Planning to rent a fish is near the top of the list of selfish deeds.

There are so many awesome fish to choose from, pick ones that will be in your 55 gallon tank for the next 5-20 years!

Dragonets, blennies, chromis, clowns, dartfish, gobies, shrimps, dwarf angel (1 per tank!), basslets, jawfish, etc.

Dragonets and blennies alone are some of the most comical and enjoyable fish to own.

I can only think of one reason to not have live rock. Since you say you're not using it, make sure to add plenty of dead rock. This will provide surface area for bacteria, and very important security for your fish.

A refugium is never a bad idea. It will help with nitrates and phosphates, and can provide a breeding ground for copepods. You'll need to harvest them with a net, unless you go for a hang-on-back fuge, or locate your own custom fuge higher than your display tank (so the return does not involve going through a pod-killing pump).

Good luck!

[Francois]

Ok, I forgot to precise, I don't wanna hear anything about my fish choice, because I've seen people being very succesful with different fish that are not recommended for a 55. So, I want to actually try. I do understand about the triggerfish, the tang, I know they need a lot of swimming space, and, I'll reconsider it.

But as I said, this post really isn;t about fish choice, it's more about the questions above, I really need people's opinions and ideas. More than I need to debate fish choice, we can do that when my tank is actually set up. Other than that, your reply was helpful, and I thank you for it. And, I'll keep in mind what you told me about the fish!

I still need answers to my questions though

[leebca]

You're in a sort of do-it-yourself (DIY) project which is commendable. There is a forum here which specializes in DIY projects which you should post some of your questions to. That is here:
DIY

There are many configurations to the saltwater system. There are however some preferences to putting things in a certain order which I'll explain.

In general, it is slightly better to put a skimmer at the end of the line, but before chemical filters, just prior to the water's return to the aquarium. However, there is no harm in putting a skimmer almost anywhere in the system.

The skimmer doesn't remove all organics and some other chemicals, so putting it ahead of chemical filters is a good idea. Also, this prevents the chemical filter from having to remove items the skimmer will handle. Putting the skimmer after the biological filter is good in the sense that the microbes get to have their choice of organics before they are removed or 'tampered with' by the skimmer and chemical filter. Lastly, since the microbes themselves produce organic wastes, it is their best location before the skimmer and chemical filter. This then places the highest quality of water returning to the display.

However, keep in mind that not all water will pass through the skimmer, and the refugium return could bypass the skimmer and chemical filters to take advantage of what the refugium can provide (see below).

I think the above should give you reason to choose the slightly better arrangement and answers your next question.

It is better to mechanically filter all water before it enters the sump or refugium. Chunks of organics must be taken out of the flow as soon as possible to reduce a high organic load on skimmer and chemical filters.

The ability of the refugium to remove nitrates is small, if the nitrogen waste production is high, like in a tank stocked with a lot of fish. It is best used in controlling nitrates in a reef tank with few fish and few nitrogen waste producers. In a fish tank, the value of the refugium is not to control nitrates. However, the refugium does have other advantages and that is, depending how it is stocked, can harbor plants that add natural antibiotics to the water, and can harbor pods that otherwise would not find life so good in the display where fish will keep their population down, and is itself, fun if you'd like to raise some of the more hardy non-mobile invertebrates. A deep bed refugium (with a mud base) can also supply micro elements over time to complement the health of the overall system.

But, as I began this post, there are many different setup configurations.

[Francois]

Thank you for this very helpful thread. I never hadplanned to add chemical filtration, but you mentioned it a couple times, so, I will.

So, I will try to sum up what you told me. So, the skimmer will be after the bio and mechanical filtration. I would then have the water be skimmed, and go through a pvc pipe which connects the two ten gallon tanks together.

Concerning the refugium, if its ability in removing nitrates is small, I don't see why I should have one. But, what can I use all that empty space in my sump for...

[leebca]

You're welcome.

The extra sump space can be used for more biological filtration, however, its purpose is a place to hold water when and if the return pump goes down. It is a place for all the filters. That's its various purposes. I use it to add things to the water, use it to note a drop in volume due to evaporation, and take samples from. If you run any automated measuring devices (e.g., pH meter, thermometer), it is also a good place to put probes.

You should review this post even if what you're doing is not exactly what it was written for:
Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

Three filters are pretty much mandatory for new aquariums and new hobbyists: mechanical, biological, and chemical. Skimmers are strongly recommended. Each can be achieved by different pieces of equipment and components. Each requires their own specific means of operation and maintenance.

[Francois]

Thank you again for this reply.

So, I'll work on the design for about a week, and then, can I send you through a post a picture of the design so you can take a look at it and advise me on what to improve? I know this is really more a matter of personnal opinion, but I just want to avoid any mistakes. And since, you obviously have WAY more experience than me, your suggestions are ALWAYS fully appreciated and fully heard.

So, this week, I will go get my to tanks drilled, but a 2 inch bulkhead as a connection between the two. (I think two inches should be big enough).

Then, my overflow box, I think I'll get the 800gph rated one, because it will be enough. I will have the pipe draining first on the pads, then, on the bio-bale, and following your advice, I will place the skimmer after the bio-bale, since as you said, it will still skim the water.

Then, the water wil go to the skimmer, it will then drain through the little connection between the two ten gallon tanks, where the pump will be located. Then, the pump will bring water back up, with a little deviation in the pipe to go into the refugium and overflow into the pump section

I will send you the design soon

The end.