Do I NEED live rock?

[irburncycle]

I see that people seems to define salt water tanks as either reef tanks for FOWLR. Would it be possible to do fish only withOUT live rock? IE if I wanted to, could I fill my refusium with bio balls, attach a large enough mechanical filter to it and decorate my tank with any sort of rock I choose? Obviously I would need to use dead or fake coral but would it be ok to do this or do I NEED live rock?

[Steve McKay]

I see that people seems to define salt water tanks as either reef tanks for FOWLR. Would it be possible to do fish only withOUT live rock? IE if I wanted to, could I fill my refusium with bio balls, attach a large enough mechanical filter to it and decorate my tank with any sort of rock I choose? Obviously I would need to use dead or fake coral but would it be ok to do this or do I NEED live rock?

Yes you could. Bio-balls, mechanical filter and carbon would be all you would need. But why? You would have to do large or frequent water changes because you nitrates would stay at high levels. More than likely you would have all kinds of undesirable algae. Sand instead of crushed coral would help. The cost of dead and (or) fake corals would be the same if not more than just buying LR. So my question is: With all the knowledge here at Reefland WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT.

[irburncycle]

Because I have a ton of aiptasia anemones and my LFS told me that this was because it was uncured rock and advised that I toss it all out. I have since learned on this forum that that is not the case and the LFS is just trying to drain my wallet. I am currently searching for a treatment for the tank for my quickly multiplying aiptasia anemones.

[leebca]

I've been in the hobby for more than 40 years. Back in the early days we didn't use live rock at all. It is possible to setup and run a marine aquarium without live rock. It seems that with live rock, however, there are several advantages (it serves more than one purpose) that are on some level, worthwhile. You should read this for more info on what I mean: What is Live Rock, Anyway?

Aiptasia is another subject. The quarantine of live rock could have avoided your problem, but there are still ways of handling the matter. Post a separate note asking for help if you still need it, on the control of Aiptasia.

[Steve McKay]

Because I have a ton of aiptasia anemones and my LFS told me that this was because it was uncured rock and advised that I toss it all out. I have since learned on this forum that that is not the case and the LFS is just trying to drain my wallet. I am currently searching for a treatment for the tank for my quickly multiplying aiptasia anemones.

In another of your threads somebody I forget who suggested that you read my build thread I'll save you the time but it is good reading, get a couple Peppermint shrimp make sure there true Peppermint shrimp Lysmata wurdemanni. The Peppermint shrimp will eat them up, even huge ones. I have used them twice for this and the method works well and naturally.

[reeferguru]

where do I begin... first of all, aiptasia is hard to get rid of as it is a fast spreader and large one are not readilly consumed by peppermint shrimp! Copperband and Long Nose Butterflies do a better job of maintaining them th, realism and ough they are not reef safe.
If you have alot of aioptasia, remove the rock and soak it in freshwater, kalkwasser solution or the sun.

Now, as for live rock, live rock adds not only beauty reprieve and hidding places for fish and other living reef inhabitants, but think of the myriad of living organisms that live, on and in the rock you purchased! Most of the organisms are also endemic to the place tbat the rock hails from. Polychaete Worms, microcrustaceans, bacteria, macroalgae, just to name a few, can be found on live rock purchased.

I would never replace live rock for bioballs...ever!
Biological filtration is number one when it comes to live sand and rock...

[Steve McKay]

large one are not readilly consumed by peppermint shrimp!

Evidently you must not have much experience, Peppermint shrimp will eat the biggest baddest aiptasia you can find. I watched as a 7" aiptasia was eaten over a period of a few days until it was no more. Why would somebody go out and get expensive fish to get rid of aiptasia, when Peppermint shrimp are cheap and readily available.

[Ninong]

I agree that live rock is certainly something you should consider for your marine aquarium. You don't have to go crazy with buying a whole bunch of expensive live rock all at once. You could even start out with just 1/3 decent live rock and 2/3 cheapy so-called dead rock. The cheapy dead rock would eventually become good live rock after a year or two if you have at least some decent live rock with it.

Anyway, get yourself some live rock. You can always buy more later on.

As far as Aiptasia are concerned, there are lots of ways to get rid of that stuff that do not include destroying the live rock by soaking it in freshwater or setting it out in the sun to dry. If you do that with all of your live rock, you will end up with nothing but dead rock. Use the search feature on the board and just enter Aiptasia to see all the previous threads discussing ways to deal with this pest.

Peppermint shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni) will usually eat Aiptasia but they may not completely eliminate it. That's because any tiny bits of Aiptasia left behind can regenerate into a new anemone. I agree that copperbanded butterflyfish (Chelmon rostratus) do an excellent job of controlling Aiptasia to the point where you are not likely to notice any. The same is true for the two species of longnose butterflyfish. These fish are relatively reef-aquarium safe but not 100% reef-aquarium safe. A lot depends on your risk tolerance. However, they are completely safe for a marine aquarium that does not contain invertebrates.

P.S. -- YouTube has several video clips of both Lysmata wurdemanni and Chelmon rostratus eating Aiptasia with gusto.

[Steve McKay]

Peppermint shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni) will usually eat Aiptasia but they may not completely eliminate it. That's because any tiny bits of Aiptasia left behind can regenerate into a new anemone.

You just had to say that, now what will I do. I have a few aiptasia too.

[Ninong]

You just had to say that, now what will I do. I have a few aiptasia too.

Use the search feature on the board. Just enter Aiptasia as the keyword. We have discussed this topic ad nauseam et ad infinitum.

[Steve McKay]

Use the search feature on the board. Just enter Aiptasia as the keyword. We have discussed this topic ad nauseam et ad infinitum.

I was just kidding. Yes I do have aiptasia but I know how to deal with it. Peppermint shrimp completely wiped it out a year ago but it was reintroduced when I bought a Favites colony not that long ago. I reintroduced Peppermint shrimp again but they missed one or as you said a piece of one. I keep Peppermint shrimp permanently in my fuge for just such emergencies. I'll have to put one in the tank again in a few days.

[reeferguru]

Evidently you must not have much experience, Peppermint shrimp will eat the biggest baddest aiptasia you can find. I watched as a 7" aiptasia was eaten over a period of a few days until it was no more. Why would somebody go out and get expensive fish to get rid of aiptasia, when Peppermint shrimp are cheap and readily available.

Thats a pretty cocky opening sentence, especially since you don't know anything about me! I can let you in on a little info about myself to clarify the so called "evidently you don't have much experience crap".
First I have maintained not only saltwater fish and reef aquariums for 20+years but have also had Africans and Tropical fish as well. I have worked at a local pet shop for a couple years now, due to my experience regarding many aspects of the hobby from water parameters to fish compatability and husbandry requirements, just to name a few.
I have written over 150 articles that have been published regarding the saltwater hobby. I have kept Peppermint Shrimp for years and have not wittnessed them eat the biggest baddest Aiptasia! Having said that, maybe you have seen this, I am not doubting this, but based on historcal data and article after article and other aquarists experiences, the likelihood is not very good.
It is people, such as yourself, that give forum sites a bad wrap! Everyone here on Reefland, I thought, was here for a reason, to learn, help out others, have fun and offer personal experiences while hopefully increasing the odds that livestock have, being maintained in a closed system environment.
Unfortunately, their are some people that think they are never wrong and consider themselves as the ultimate genius of the saltwater hobby.
To bad that when someone tries to offer advice, they get crap for it, like your 2 cents...
I was enjoying it here until you decided to make a statement that had no credibility whatsoever!
I'm done wasting my time having to explain myself, next time you may want to think before making rash idiotic comments to someone just trying to offer help!

[twisted]

[leebca]

What I would prefer is that posters don't display negativity towards one another. Should someone seem to be negative, no need to continue the negativity.

Maintain civility please, everyone.