clown fish driving me crazy in a 14g biocube

[liras]

I have a 14g biocube with live rock/live sand setup. I let it cycle for a month and tested until I got 0s for ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. I added 2 small clown fish (about 1" each) and that's it. They seem to be hearty & healthy - they eat very well and I've had them for about 6 weeks now. The thing that's driving me crazy is that they hang around the top of the tank in 1 corner and don't come out unless I'm feeding them. They don't seem distressed or anything but they never go near the bottom half of the tank. In hopes of getting them to come out, I introduced a small bubble tip anemone to the tank. It has only been a day for that so I think they might need a little time, but for now they seem disinterested in it.

What else can I do?

[rluix]

I have a 14g biocube with live rock/live sand setup. I let it cycle for a month and tested until I got 0s for ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. I added 2 small clown fish (about 1" each) and that's it. They seem to be hearty & healthy - they eat very well and I've had them for about 6 weeks now. The thing that's driving me crazy is that they hang around the top of the tank in 1 corner and don't come out unless I'm feeding them. They don't seem distressed or anything but they never go near the bottom half of the tank. In hopes of getting them to come out, I introduced a small bubble tip anemone to the tank. It has only been a day for that so I think they might need a little time, but for now they seem disinterested in it.

What else can I do?

A zero nitrate reading is very strange, either your test kit is broken or you haven't done such a test.
This is because what the bacteria from the cycle do is transforming ammonia into nitrite and then nitrite to nitrates, wich are less toxic and are easly removed with water changes.

[peacock]

I have a 14g biocube with live rock/live sand setup. I let it cycle for a month and tested until I got 0s for ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. I added 2 small clown fish (about 1" each) and that's it. They seem to be hearty & healthy - they eat very well and I've had them for about 6 weeks now. The thing that's driving me crazy is that they hang around the top of the tank in 1 corner and don't come out unless I'm feeding them. They don't seem distressed or anything but they never go near the bottom half of the tank. In hopes of getting them to come out, I introduced a small bubble tip anemone to the tank. It has only been a day for that so I think they might need a little time, but for now they seem disinterested in it.

What else can I do?

sound like they r still settling down to me but may be wrong do u know what ur water params r? i had a pair of clowns like ages ago they just wouldn't move from the filter outlet pipe and one day they just came out. they should be ok just give them some time.

[Ninong]

What species of clownfish do you have?

[liras]

They aren't exactly 0. I wasn't being scientific in my question I guess

Ammonia 0mg/l
Nitrite is as close to 0 as my test goes (<0.3mg/l)
Nitrate is less than 12.5mg/l
Alkalinity 300 ppm
PH 8.4

[liras]

I'm not sure of the species.

[leebca]

Wish I had $1 for every time I read that the hobbyist doesn't think their fish is stressed. Fish don't talk. They show stress very seldom. They are very easily stressed. If these Anemonefish are captive bred, they are less stressed. If they came from the wild, they are stressed.

Behavior is about the only clue hobbyists get regarding whether or not a fish is stressed. A fish hanging out in a specific area near the top of the tank is usually stressed. This particular stressor is usually being uncomfortable with the 'cage.' This can be chemical, tankmates, food/nutrition, space, or any combo of these.

I will say that for sure, there is a space issue. Two Anemonefish of only certain small species can be put into a 29 gallon tank when in there without other fishes. Other species of Anemonefishes (the larger ones) should be in an aquarium of no less than 45 gallons.

We don't stock fish by their current size, but the size they will grow into.

I suggest you read this post:
Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR

[liras]

Wow Lee - take it easy. Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate asking for help and getting slammed. I've never done this before and I'm trying to do everything correctly. I never said the fish weren't stressed. I only said that they seem to be eating well. I'm not even sure you are posting to the right thread because I'm not asking about anemones and I don't have a 29 gallon tank.

[Original Fin]

Wow Lee - take it easy. Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate asking for help and getting slammed. I've never done this before and I'm trying to do everything correctly. I never said the fish weren't stressed. I only said that they seem to be eating well. I'm not even sure you are posting to the right thread because I'm not asking about anemones and I don't have a 29 gallon tank.

I agree liras...that was a little harsh, especially coming from a moderator. Lee, it's a given that most of the visitors, and a fair amount of the contrubutors to this forum are just flat out inexperienced in comparrison to yourself. We get it. Are you trying to run an experts only club here, or are you at all interested in promoting the hobby to others? I'm not just picking on you Lee...I know nothing about you, but it seems to me that there is a an elitist attitude that is rampant throughout the hobby. Rise above it man. BTW, don't you think "hobby" an awful word to describe any sort of passion for caregiving, and isn't that essentially what we do?
I have to assume you have the best intentions when you come off that way. After all, it's a great responsibilty to care for any pet, be it a cat, dog, whatever, and it sucks that there are people that don't take it seriously...don't confuse them with people that just don't know any better...help them if you can! Sure, it's gotta be difficult to watch people make the same mistakes over and over again. Mistakes that result in poor quality of life or worse for the creatures that are totally dependent on us for life support. The fact is, we all have to start somewhere, and when you discourage those seeking guidance from asking questions, you make things even worse...I'm pretty sure you weren't given some divine right that the rest of us weren't, and you made mistakes too somewhere along the way. Of course this forum was never intended to be customer service and technical support...You can make it whatever you want. You should either be supportive and helpful, or bite your lip, show some class, and let somebody else jump in.
Now before the founding members jump to Lees aid and kick me out, I'm just trying to give liras a little support, and those of you that need it, a little perspective. Just try to remember what it was like starting out.

[peacock]

They aren't exactly 0. I wasn't being scientific in my question I guess

Ammonia 0mg/l
Nitrite is as close to 0 as my test goes (<0.3mg/l)
Nitrate is less than 12.5mg/l
Alkalinity 300 ppm
PH 8.4

only thing i would say is to get the nitrate down abit 12.5 isn't bad but it could be abit better best thing to do is do a few extra water changes and cut down on the amount of food going in. how much do u feed them??

thank peacock

[liras]

I feed them once a day. That is what the woman in the fish store told me to feed them, although I have a book which says to feed them up to 3 times a day. I did a partial water change a couple weeks ago so it is probably time for another one. I spoke with another person at the store and he said that it was very common for them to hover in one place and it can take them a long time before they start using the rest of the tank.

[sfreefer]

I agree liras...that was a little harsh, especially coming from a moderator. Lee, it's a given that most of the visitors, and a fair amount of the contrubutors to this forum are just flat out inexperienced in comparrison to yourself. We get it. Are you trying to run an experts only club here, or are you at all interested in promoting the hobby to others? I'm not just picking on you Lee...I know nothing about you, but it seems to me that there is a an elitist attitude that is rampant throughout the hobby. Rise above it man. BTW, don't you think "hobby" an awful word to describe any sort of passion for caregiving, and isn't that essentially what we do?
I have to assume you have the best intentions when you come off that way. After all, it's a great responsibilty to care for any pet, be it a cat, dog, whatever, and it sucks that there are people that don't take it seriously...don't confuse them with people that just don't know any better...help them if you can! Sure, it's gotta be difficult to watch people make the same mistakes over and over again. Mistakes that result in poor quality of life or worse for the creatures that are totally dependent on us for life support. The fact is, we all have to start somewhere, and when you discourage those seeking guidance from asking questions, you make things even worse...I'm pretty sure you weren't given some divine right that the rest of us weren't, and you made mistakes too somewhere along the way. Of course this forum was never intended to be customer service and technical support...You can make it whatever you want. You should either be supportive and helpful, or bite your lip, show some class, and let somebody else jump in.
Now before the founding members jump to Lees aid and kick me out, I'm just trying to give liras a little support, and those of you that need it, a little perspective. Just try to remember what it was like starting out.

I agree with you "Original Fin". Lee, Parrothead and Rluix is acting like the guru's of of this hobby. Just do your own research if you have any concerns or issues regarding your fish tank. There's tons of forums and I'm sure you'll get the answer to your question. Ninongs post and advise are far better than anybody else...

[peacock]

I feed them once a day. That is what the woman in the fish store told me to feed them, although I have a book which says to feed them up to 3 times a day. I did a partial water change a couple weeks ago so it is probably time for another one. I spoke with another person at the store and he said that it was very common for them to hover in one place and it can take them a long time before they start using the rest of the tank.

yeah they can take ages to settle in. most people will tell u to feed them everyday tbh u don't need to has there will be enough food in the tank for them and the food they don't eat will just rot and cause nitrates.i only feed mine every 2 days and that one cube and that for 3 feeds that day and they get nori every other day imo

peacock

[Ninong]

Just the facts:

A 14-gal aquarium is really too small for any clownfish. Some people may keep one, or even two, of the smallest species (Amphiprion percula) in such an aquarium but it's really not a healthy environment.

A 14-gal aquarium is too small for a bubble-tip anemone.

An anemone should not be added until after the aquarium has had time to mature a little. Usually this means waiting six months, three months at an absolute minimum.

If you plan to enventually keep a pair of clownfish with a host anemone, then you have to think about this before you decide which species of clownfish you want to keep. For example, a bubble-tip anemone (Entacmaea quadricolor), is not a natural host for either Amphiprion percula or A. ocellaris. A. ocellaris will usually accept it as a surrogate host in captivity and A. percula will sometimes accept it.

The employees at the LFS who sold you the pair of clownfish and the bubble-tip anemone for your 14-gallon aquarium are obviously not at all interested in you or your aquarium. All they want to do is sell you stuff. Their advice is worth exactly what you paid for it: nothing. That's just the unvarnished truth.

If you want to keep your clownfish and your anemone, then you have to upgrade to a larger aquarium. I would suggest nothing smaller than 40 gallons. Twenty-five gallons would be sufficient as a minimum size for a pair of either percula or ocellaris clowns but it would not be large enough for the bubble tip anemone. When I say minimum, I mean exactly that. Minimum. I don't think it's a healthy environment for a pair of clownfish but at least it would be better than trying to keep them in a 14-gal tank.

A 14-gal bio-cube is suitable as a nano-reef aquarium with perhaps one or two tiny gobies.

Good luck!

P.S. -- I recommend you re-read Post #7 above and follow that advice instead of the advice you are getting from your LFS.

[Ninong]

Wow Lee - take it easy. Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate asking for help and getting slammed.

You were not getting slammed. Lee was simply giving you the facts.

I've never done this before and I'm trying to do everything correctly.

Good. That's exactly what Lee was trying to do: help you "do everything correctly."

I'm not even sure you are posting to the right thread because I'm not asking about anemones and I don't have a 29 gallon tank.

Lee knows you have a 14-gal tank. That's why he said a 29-gal tank is the smallest he would recommend for some of the smaller species of clownfish. You yourself said you have an anemone; however, Lee didn't say anything at all about anemones in his post. He used the word "anemonefish," which is the correct term for clownfish.

Actually, what you said is that you have a pair of clownfish (probably either percula or ocellaris clowns) and a bubble-tip anemone in a 14-gallon bio-cube. Whoever set you up with this aquarium and sold you the clownfish and the bubble-tip anemone is clueless. And their advice is worthless. Now those are the facts.

The problem is that people don't like hearing the facts. It's sort of like the ancient Greeks killing the bearer of bad news.

[leebca]

Thank you Ninong.

It's easy to not read things closely in this medium, liras. As far as not understanding what you read, just ask about it rather than making assumptions and saying negative things.

Regarding the advice, liras, always ask the background of those who would provide advice. Your LFS often doesn't actually keep at home the fishes they sell. Their advice is usually obtained from other people telling them!

As far as 'attitude' goes, it is hard to read that from the printed word. The reader doesn't know how the writer was thinking quite often. So, I would suggest you be open and if you assume someone is being hostile, short, or unfriendly, you ask before presuming otherwise.

As far as my background is concerned, please read this: Bio - Lee (a.k.a. leebca)

Original Fin, sfreefer, and those that might share a similar opinion -- the above applies plus I'd add, we are the gurus.

[liras]

Lee - Sorry for the misunderstanding - Like I said - I'm just trying to take care of the fish that I have with the equipment that I have. I wish I had the cash to upgrade but I'm stuck with the current setup for now.

[leebca]

liras,

I understand. No problem on my end.

After the Disney movies featuring Nemo there was quite a rush on to start up marine aquariums so that one could have their own 'Nemo.' Many LFSs pushed the small aquariums -- selling something, even if too small, is better than selling nothing.

The small aquarium you do have is suitable for some very tiny fishes, but there aren't too many of those.

You may want to check out a lot of other posts here in Reefland so you can begin to learn more about the hobby. This posts lists many of the subjects covered: Table/Contents - Link List

Good luck!

[Ninong]

I recommend this book for anyone with clownfish: Clownfishes by Joyce Wilkerson. She covers husbandry and breeding. She also covers host sea anemones a little.

Dr. Ron Shimek has written an article on how to care for a bubble-tip anemone: Be a Host to Your Anemone.

Dr. Daphne Fautin has published her book on clownfish and their host sea anemones online; however, it contains absolutely nothing about aquarium care as that wasn't its purpose in the first place. This is basically an expansion of her doctoral thesis. It contains a lot of valuable information and is well worth reading. And re-reading. Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones.