Newbie setting up a 90 Gal tank

[jason081180]

Well I have had freshwater tanks for years mainly cichlids and my wife want me to get a saltwater set-up.

Equipment list as of now;
90gal tank
Rena XP3 filter
Hot magnum 250GPH filter
Air pump and disk
300 W heater.
Florescent shop lights
Kent salt water mix for 200Gal
Crushed coral substrate

I will be getting 100LBs of life rock tomorrow for $180 from a guy on craigslist. This will be a FOWLR tank as I know I don't have good lights. I have read thru the Setting up a FOWLR Aquarium and other Stickies. The plan is to get the tank all set up with the live rock tomorrow and leave it until I get back from vacation about May 1st. they will be about a month or so. The live rock is coming out of a running tank. I will be using a few shrimp to do a fishless cycle. I need to know if my plan sounds good and what fish and when I should add them to my tank. The tank and everything was set up for freshwater so do I need to sterilize that filter, substrate and everything before I set it up? I know the bacteria that run the cycle are different for fresh water vs. salt water. Don’t know about any contamination. I do not have a skimmer yet but am planning to get one when I get back on the 1st. Let me know what you think and any changes I need to make. This is my first saltwater tank and I want it to be nice.

[leebca]

I congratulate you on planning. Few hobbyists will do this and the planning phase is very important.

I would like you to read through this post. Not only will it give some guidance on the process, but you'll notice that it will provide you with lists of things you'll need. I don't go through your or others' lists, because I've listed what you will need in this post: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

Take your time and familiarize yourself with the process and you'll succeed! Good luck. ;)

[jason081180]

well i got the live rock today and will be setting up the tank tonight. I'll try and get some pictures as well.

[jason081180]

what is the bast way to clean up an old power head? I've been told vinegar soak and scrub works good.
should i clean the live rock i got and if so how?
i have always had a bubble disk or wand in my fresh water tanks but i have recently learned that they dont help oxygenate the water much, more so just move it to the surface. do i need a bubble disk in my saltwater tank? i might just get rid of it all together.

[jearbear]

Congrats on your first salt...if the live rock is coming from a currently running tank u shouldn't need to cycle it as long as it has not been kept out of water (the bacteria will already be established). If that is so don't bother with the shrimp you'll be causing ammonia for no reason. Just let it sit for a week with your filtration going and test your water for ammonia and nitrite if they r still zero u should be able to proceed with inhabitants. The rock will most likely have small amounts decomposing matter in it, your ammonia for the bacterial cycle. Hope this helps, good luck.

[Original Fin]

Diluted white Vinegar works really well, (5:1) but you have to let it soak overnight for best results.

Stray bubbles are bad in reef tanks. Bubbles irritate some corals, and can cause siphons to fail (flood risk) in overflows. If you have a protein skimmer (and you should) you are already oxygenating the water column more than effectively. Really all you need for adequate gas exchange is a powerhead or return aimed slightly towards the surface to break the surface tension.

[jason081180]

Thank you very much Original Fin and jearbear.
i will not add the air disk to the tank. i am planning to get a Seaclone 150 Skimmer. Is this a good brand? what would you recommend?

i know the live rock i have now is from a running tank and has the bacteria on it already for the cycle. but if i leave the tank empty for a month like I'm planning tell i get back from vacation shouldn't i have some sore of ammonia producing something to simulate fish?

i will try the Diluted white Vinegar thing tonight and let you all know about my results.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

Hi Jason. Welcome to reefland!
I haven't heard many good things about seaclone skimmers. C-skim, reef octopus, and swc are a few brands that seem pretty good and are moderately priced. When it comes to skimmers (and reef lighting), it's pretty much a you get what you pay for deal.

Established bacteria colonies need to be fed regularly to prevent them from dieting off.
The normal die off from transporting live rock might be enough to sustain the colonies until the first. If you want to play it safe, you could get an automatic feeder and set it to dispense a small amount of food every couple/ few days. I think it was somewhere around 5 grams of food per 25 gallons of water.

Do you plan on converting the tank to a reef later on? If so, the crushed coral substrate will most likely give you nitrate problems down the road.

[jason081180]

well I'm not leaving tell the 20th so in the mean time i will monitor my levels and if the ammonia drop to 0 then i think i will add a shrimp or two maybe see if my battery operated auto feeder still works and hook that up with flake food. what is a good cheap website to look for a skimmer and other equipment.

i have a API liquid test kit for fresh water. do i need to buy the saltwater master kit or will the freshwater work for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Its testing the same things but i don't know if it will work for saltwater. is there a better test kit that you recommend? i want a liquid one with test tubes as i know the paper strips aren't as accurate.

[Original Fin]

Some of the API tests will work for both, but not all. The reference colors are different in some cases, so better to just get the marine master kit if you intend to stay with API, which is IMO an ok beginner test kit. I prefer Salifert though. Much more resolution and accuracy, and you don't need to interpret color gradients. Unfortunately, e is no master kit with Salifert. You'll need to buy them all separately, and they can get a little pricey.
You will need the following to get you through the initial cycle: PH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Additionally, you'll need a decent thermometer, and I recommend opting for a refractometer to measure SG...this is a critical parameter to keep consistent, and Hydrometers have far too much room for error IME.
After the initial cycle, you will need additional test kits for calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, and phosphates.

Hit up Bulk Reef Supply if you haven't already. They are one of the most value conscious sites I've used without getting into any cheap worthless crap.

[Original Fin]

Oh, and +1 on Seaclone skimmers having a bad rep.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

I agree with Fin on the test kits. I am currently using the API test kits and they do an okay job. Once I use up the tests, I'll be using salifert.
I also side with Fin on Bulk Aquarium Supplies - Reef Aquarium Supplies | BulkReefSupply.com. Their prices are resonable and they have excellent customer service. Marine Depot (Aquarium Pet Fish Supplies, Tank Accessories, Products & Equipment) is also popular.

[Original Fin]

Newbies always seem to gravitate towards the Seaclone, and I can understand why. It's pretty much alone in it's price range, and it's very well marketed. A lot of LFS carry these, but don't get into the higher end products at all, so how are they to know that better exists?

What I can tell you about protein skimmers is just that which I've learned over the past year, but here goes:

First, I should disclose that I've only owned one skimmer, a CPR Aeroforce ($199) ,which is a Hang on the Back style skimmer. You'll need to do a HOB if you aren't planning on running a sump tank, otherwise, an in line, or in sump type is much better...I'll get in to that in a moment. Back to the CPR- I'm reasonably happy with it, but if I knew then what I know now, I would have invested considerably more in a higher end product.

Even though I've only owned one skimmer thus far, I do eventually want to upgrade, so I've done a lot of research. I've read probably hundreds of reef forum threads where people share their impressions of their particular skimmers. The theme seems to be this...most people, I find, want to be able to say they made a good choice on their purchases, so these kind of testimonials tend to be more full of praise than criticism, so you do have to take them with a grain of salt. There are a couple exceptions though with particular products that seem to get slammed a lot.

The Seaclone is right up there for sheer quantity of unsatisfied users. Also high on the list...Berlin Skimmers, and Coralife. The bulk of the competition is in the mid price range, and they pretty much all seem to be very good performing skimmers. Then there are the several very high end products with...I'm just gonna say it...ridiculous price tags. <cough-Bubble King...Vertex-cough>

As a first time buyer, I was blown away by how many different skimmer designs there are, and all of the different jargon. I'll start first with where they are mounted. There's HOB, which can be hung on the back of your display tank. Most of this type are not very effective at surface skimming, which is where a lot of oily filth and surfactants cling to the surface tension. Better, are the in line, and in sump models, meant to be used in conjunction with a sump. In sump, means it is made to be partially submerged. In line is not...it sits next to the sump and is connected by tubing/pipe.
The next big thing that sets different designs apart from eachother is how the foam is created. They all require at least one pump, more often two or more, to do this. Some have proprietary means, such as the Becket, which is no longer on the market. Then there are venturi skimmers, needle wheel skimmers, downdraft skimmers, cones, cylinders, self cleaning neck designs...it goes on, but they all acomplish the same thing.

Generally speaking, you get what you pay for here, just like with anything else. It's hard to believe at first that a decent skimmer should cost as much as it does...it's just plastic, right?
Seaclone sells a lot of units. They also generate a lot of new business for other brands once their owners realize that they can do so much better, but you might have to live with it for a while to come to that realization.

Anyway...first time PS buyers usually don't have their whole hearts into the idea of laying down a bunch of money on something that up until a few years ago wasn't even heard of in this hobby. The idea/technology has been around for much longer. It came from municipal waste water treatment. There are still plenty of old school reefers that will tell you you don't really need one, especially if soft corals are your intention. All I know, is it's a lot easier with on than without.

The truth is, even most of the "junky" skimmers can be made to perform adequately with enough tinkering and babysitting...even the lowly Seaclone. But who wants that? That is the conclusion I came to with my skimmer. It will work well enough on it's own (usually) for 3-5 days before I have to take both pumps out and de-clog them. Why not run a pre-filter? Well, I have. It lasts a little longer that way, but it's more maintenance on rinsing socks every couple days, so it's litteraly a wash.

It's my understanding that this is what you gain (or lose, more to the point) when you opt for a higher end skimmer. Better pumps that wont clog. Less need for adjustment. Easier to dissasemble for cleaning. Longer lasting materials and designs that better handle the constant abuse of all that taking apart and putting them back together. Can you put a price tag on that? Yes you can as it turns out, and they have. It took me a year of fumbling and cursing to see the value in it, but I do see the value in it now.

For you, look for a skimmer rated for around 2X your system volume, so 180 gallons for just the DT, more if you run a sump too. Plan on purchasing from a reef supply etailer like Marine Depot, Bulk Reef Supply, Reef Geek, Aquacave, etc...Myself, I am a big Super Reef Octopus skimmer fan at the moment.

[jason081180]

Wow thanks so much Original Fin. that's what these forums are for sharing knowledge and experience like this. i will take your advice and get a better skimmer. it will have to be a HOB kind though. Ive been told to not use one while I'm cycling the tank so i wasn't planning to buy one tell after the 1st anyway. so i have some time to shop around. i have looked at the Reef Octopus® HOB skimmer BH-2000 it looks ok and a good price but it is only rated for a 125Gal tank and mine is 90gal. i cant find a good HOB skimmer for a 200 gal tank. i wish i had room for a sump but maybe in the future if this first tank does well. maybe the BH-2000 will be ok as i am planning fora light bioload for the first tank. i don't know what do you all think?

ill look in to the salifert tests. but yes i see they are a little pricey all individual. i think i may get the API master test kit for the pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests and then the salifert for the rest when the time comes.

the Diluted white Vinegar work amazing. i used about a 2:1 mixture though and let it soak overnight but when i checked after 3 hours, almost all of it was wiping right off. its great now i have two new looking and i hope performing powerheads.

[jason081180]

i have been reading more on this forum and i think i will take the crushed coral out of my tank and go with sand. on another forum i have read about using pool filter sand but that's for my freshwater cichlid tank. is there any reason i couldn't do this for a saltwater tanks as well?

[Original Fin]

There's supposed to be some sort of test you can do with muriatic acid or vinegar, that will tell you whether or not a given sand will be reef safe. If anything dissolves when you do this, its not safe. Colored sand you may want to stay away from as its usually dyed with who knows what. Also, grain size and shape is important. Aragonite is perfect for it's buffering characteristics, and grains that don't allow detritus to settle into pockets, yet it's still loose enough to avoid anaerobic areas close to the surface.

Yet another consideration is if you will keep sand sifting fish or inverts. Silica sand (quartz) is like tiny shards of glass for those guys mouthparts. If no sandsifters, then some people use paver sand and claim no problems from it. It's dirt cheap too. Sorry, that was a cheap pun.

[TuReal]

Just to throw some more info your way, I am also new and did alot of research. The best aragonite i found was the "tropic of eden" reef flakes. seemed to have very little waste when i rinsed it and cheaper than most common brands. I think i got it from premium aquatics for descent shipping prices.

I also went with reef octopus protien skimmer HOB BH-100 (i have a 55 gal) with a sump, best price i think was on ebay. I did alot of reading and didnt see why i couldnt do a hob on main display, while still having a sump with refugium. we shall see.

Alot of people with experience told me to steer clear of the cheap heaters and go with the ViaAqua titanium (i think thats what it is) and 2 is better than one.


I know everyone does it dif, but hopefully this is helpful in your decisions. I dont have much experience yet but look forward to trying to help others while i go!

[chrisfont23]

I was between the Reef Octopus (BH-100) and the Aquatic Life Mini 115 for my 29 gallon. I chose the latter, assuming that the Reef would be overkill. For the price, the mini kicks butt. Might be a little small for your setup, but nonetheless, a good little skimmer for $60.