HELP me figure out what is wrong with these two fishes ?flame angel and picasso

[madi05]

Hi, well its simple this is my third flame angel because the lfs replaces them cause they die just after i acclimate them and they have a week warranty on all fish, but the thing is i have never lost a fish till now, i have hypo a ich breakout and so far still all healthy ,, i figured while i had to wait so long for all the hypo work i would buy a few more fish ,, cause im putting a few that are in hypo in a different tank for science classes for kids to see

now i did the methylne blue fw bath with many fishes and all did fine and i did the same thing with my flames , me and the lfs cant figure it out, everything is more than perfect, the only thing we think is that we found out the people he get them from give all there fish a copper and prazipro treatment and make sure they are eating before the deliver his order ,, so the last two my lfs never put fish in there tank ,, i just took them and did the ole leebco thing and they all suffer the same faith, death i have one now laying on its side , at first they all start bobbing like for apples , then they just simply feather down to the bottom and lay there lifeless and soon after they perish,, well this one today did the same thing but i didnt do the dip just because of what happend to the last two but still same scenario , i even this time took more time for sensitive fish ,, but he has been laying for two hours just breathing but looking dead, if i poke at him he will swim around and then roll over again ,, im stunned , help here is a pic of the white patch that is on the flame

now secondly i have had this triggerfish in qt for over 4 weeks now, he eats great , swims around fine ,, but he has on his front fins after the fw dip developed these patchy cotton looking things on his front fins and a pimple like white growth on his back body near rear top fin ,, they started or were there the day i got him, he also on back top thin fin has two specks looks like ich but nothing has changed in 4 weeks with him , so yesterday i decided to hypo him while im hypoing the rest and just see if it helps , i do not think the pimple or the front fins are ich , its hard to take pic of him , he is a very agile fish , he will eat from my toothpick , hes a little one but eats like a pig, lol any help will be appreciated , leebca and others with more experience please chime in

[madi05]

2 more images

[madi05]

oh yeah , can u see those black specks on his lower side , is that normal on the flame ?

[madi05]

actually looking closer at the flame angel, it appears to be a cut or slit on her side, it almost looks like someone took a knife and slit her there ,, is there a disease that will make it look like that?

[schabiazabi]

I'm not sure if I'm correct here, but looking at your Flame Angel I see something I had in my tank few weeks ago. On the left side of the fish, what is that white patch? I do not believe that is part of the fish. It may be some kind of bacterial infection causing those white patches. Two of my fish have died in a similar way you describe, with the exact same looking white areas. You can PM me if you know where the fish was ordered from. Maybe it's the same location, and we both ordered from there.

I applied Maracyn Two (saltwater) and this thing has stopped infecting my other fish.
All is well since then.

You can view my thread here Marine Velvet or That's The Fish - Yellow Coris Wrasse
Compare to my pictures (not as good as yours) to see if that's what it is. Those white patches would shine/illuminate under moonlights.

Btw, you need to provide all water parameters, acclamation procedures, and the whole nine yards in order for someone to help you correctly.

[madi05]

it seems we do have something in common, lol he died and now i could look further at it , it actually looks like a wound to me ,, but im not sure it looks like its under his fin a bit as well

[madi05]

got the other two up that shows it best

[leebca]

I'd like to see photos of the Triggerfish. You might look around the Internet and see if what you're looking at is similar to fishes with Lymphocystis. If not this particular virus, the description fits that of a virus. Pictures. . .

Regarding the Flame Angelfish. . .Definitely something in common with them all, having come from the same supplier. Time to try and different supplier, I'd say. As for a diagnosis. . .there are way to many variables especially since we really don't know what the source is doing to their fish.

[madi05]

there are pics of the humuhumu at the top ? i read bob fenner said u actually might could scrape one off with your finger and it may help boost his immune system to fight off the other smaller ones , whats your take on this ? and then i read someone else say u should kill a fish with this lymph disease? are they crazy? and btw he was fw dip as per four method when i got him

[leebca]

Sorry. All jpg's were labeled SAM so I thought they were all of the dead Flame Angel.

Fish should never be touched by human hands. Our bacteria and their bacteria should never mix. The 'scraping' of a fish removes their natural protective barrier -- their mucous coating. However, the surgical removal of lymph nodes has shown to be of some value. Most hobbyists are not equipped to do such a procedure and its need is not high on the list of 'things to do.'

As mentioned elsewhere, getting sound advice is hard, in this hobby. A fish with Lymph viral infection just needs improved nutrition and environment to get past this condition. With time and proper care, it goes away. Not something that would require putting the fish down.

[madi05]

well he is a carnivore so im sure i can give him some really good meats to eat, lol im just gonna let him hang out in the qt for as long as it takes right? or do u think he will be ok with other fish not getting infected? he still got 4 weeks of qt left anyway

[leebca]

Just to clarify, 'meat' isn't all they need to eat. They need to eat the whole organism -- eyeballs, guts, organs, heart, liver, etc. as well as flesh. Also, supplement with vitamins made from sea life.

Before adding the Lymph infected fish in with the rest, I would wait until it has overcome the viral infection. This is good sense, since the fish going into the DT will not have to deal with the stress of the virus infection.

[madi05]

so could u give me a good meal regimen just for him, he is my only carnivore actually, everything else is ominvore and herbivore, so i just feed him my homemade ominvore food , sort of like your mix u showed, but it does have kelp and spirulina and vitachem and a mix of squid, clams, shrimp tails , krill and i put the brine shrimp eggs u know the ones in a jar but they always just sort of mix out in the water it appears ,, is there something i need to do when i mix it up and freeze it , they are like tiny brown specks , i put a half a jar in the mix ,, or am i supposed to soak them or something ? also i burnt up a cheapo blender doing it, lol so next batch i will use a processor black and decker from wal mart

[leebca]

so could u give me a good meal regimen just for him

Sorry. Unable to put that much time into this kind of request. The information is there if you'll read it. Unhatched brine shrimp eggs without any prior treatment to remove their shell is not helpful nor healthy for the fish. No need to invent new additions to a food mix:
Fish Health through Proper Nutrition
Some homemade ideas BUT stick with seafoods or foods from the sea:
Melevsreef.com - Proper Feeding Methods