stocking for a 90Gal

[jason081180]

I have had my 90gal up and running for about a month with about 100lbs of live rock from an established tank. The ammonia and nitrites read 0 and the nitrates are reading about 10ppm. I got 6 green chromis from a LPS in town and they have been in for about 2 days now. I will check the levels again when I get home tonight. But I'm looking to get some more fish as 6 small fish isn’t enough for a 90 gal tank. of course I will be waiting a bit to get them but I was thinking:

4 green clown Goby
4 bicolor Chromis
2 engineer goby
2 yellow clown goby
1 bicolor blenny

8 bumble bee snails
8 cerith snail
4 camel shrimp
3 coral banded shrimp
2 arrow crab
2 bumble bee shrimp


These would be in addition to the fish I already have. Please let me know if this is too much fish or if anything won’t work with something else. These fish were picked based on the Marine Compatibility Chart and prices from another website. They have free shipping if you order $200+ so that’s why there are so many fish and Invertebrates. Please let me know what you all think. This website is a great wealth of info and I know you all have more experience than me.

[TuReal]

First concern would be the amount of fish you want to put in at once. It will put unwanted strain on your system and cause many hardships immediately for the system. The scam of buy more and get free shipping is just wrong in saltwater stocking.

If you want to buy 200 worth of fish make it one or two fish worth 100 each. You will have greater success and healthier fishes if you take your time and qt each one as well.

I have not been in hobby long but i avoid trying to save on shipping on livestock.

[jason081180]

yes i have been wondering about that. to many fish at once. i know you can do a fish-less cycle by adding ammonia yourself. i wonder about doing that in very small doses to a tank that already has fish. i mean maybe enough to get it up to .25ppm. just so it registers. so then the bacteria would begin to grow. and when i do add the new fish there wouldn't be as much of a shock to the system because its used to the higher amounts of ammonia and can already process it.

[TuReal]

yes i have been wondering about that. to many fish at once. i know you can do a fish-less cycle by adding ammonia yourself. i wonder about doing that in very small doses to a tank that already has fish. i mean maybe enough to get it up to .25ppm. just so it registers. so then the bacteria would begin to grow. and when i do add the new fish there wouldn't be as much of a shock to the system because its used to the higher amounts of ammonia and can already process it.

Ill let someone else respond with more experience. But IMHO, which can be wrong, adding amonia to bring your levels up so the shock to the system will only cause even higher levels when you add the fish to the system.

I beleive Lee has a sticky somewhere about your first post as well and free S&H

[jason081180]

I think I may change things around and get 1 each Coral Beauty and/or flame angel, Blue Hippo tang, Ocellaris Clownfish, and Foxface Rabbitfish those 5 fish would be 108 so I could spend another 100 on the cleanup crew I guess. And I would then have 5 nicer fish instead of 13 ok fish. Do you have any concerns with the fish I have selected? Such as fighting or getting to big.

adding the extra ammonia was to increase the beneficial bacteria before i add the fish. it would all be converted before i add the fish but the bacteria would remain to convert the ammonia from the fish. I would make sure the levels were 0 before adding the new fish.

[jason081180]

I think I would really like to change my tank to a reef tank sometime in the future, maybe a year or so. So I need to make sure all my inhabitants are reef safe. I bought 6 Chromis from the advice of the local store. I think they are picking on one already as I have often only seen 5 swimming around. I guess the other is hiding. I went with the Chromis because I was told they are less aggressive than the Damsels and I wanted a schooling fish in there. I saw that the blue hippo tang is more peaceful but gets about 10in long. Would that be too big for my 90Gal? Do you know anything about silica/pool filter sand? I have been told it makes a good cheap substrate for my cichlids but I don’t know about saltwater.

So in my tank I’m planning to have;

Clean up crew
3 Coral Banded Shrimp
5 Cerith Snail
5 Margarita Snail
12 Blue Leg Reef Hermit Crab

Fish
2 Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Flame Angel
1 Foxface Rabbitfish
1 Yellow Tang or Blue Hippo tang
1 Six Line Wrasse
1 Lawnmower Blenny
1 Green Clown Goby
2 Engineer Goby
6 Green Chromis that I already have.

Will having 2 different kinds, 3 total gobies, be a problem?

Do you see any problems with what I have selected?

Is that enough cleanup crew?



What do you think of Green Brittle Starfish, Long Spine Urchin, Flame Scallop, Feather Duster (I know I’m not ready for this one yet), and Sponges? I seem to want everything but I know it won’t all work together. But I want as much different life as possible.

Thanks for the time and wisdom.
Josh

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

IMO, your CUC will have to be bigger. I personally, don't like any type of crabs in a reef tank. Lots of people have blue leg hermits and don't have issues though.
In my 75g, I have somewhere near 175 snails. I think I have 100 astrea snails. 50 nassarius vibex, and 24 cerith snails.

Coral banded shrimp are sometimes not reef safe.
If you do go with hermits, make sure you provide plenty of extra shells. They have been known to kill snails for their shells.

Flame angels might pick at corals.
I don't know anything about the foxface.
The yellow and blue Tangs are probobly not the best for a 90g.
The six line can be pretty aggressive and might not get along with the gobies.

I don't know enough about the other inverts you listed.

[Original Fin]

If I can be of some help, if you want to do a reef in the future, I'd forget all about angelfish, and the foxface. Too nippy with the corals IME. They will tell you that they're reef safe with caution...which just means you roll the dice when you buy one.

About the Tangs, and this is hotly contested, but most would tell you that tank is too small for any tang. They require a lot of space for swimming, 6 ft is a minimum IMO. They also need adequate front to back for banking, 30" or better for most, 24 might do it for some of the smaller varieties. 240 is the minimum I always have in mind, but no one really agrees on where to draw the line, except to say that they deserve big tanks.

The qty of fish you are proposing is too high IMO, especially with some of the larger fish you've listed. I like the gobys, blennies and clowns. They always seem to do well in reefs, but you do have to be careful with how many of the same species you can put together without conflict. Clowns do well in pairs, as long as you get a large and a small one (or juveniles) they will probably become mated.
Also, keep in mind that fish that are known for jumping can be a bit tricky in reefs since you want to keep an open top on a reef for gas exchange and reef lighting. There are things you can do with mesh netting, but better to do that ahead of time if you're planning on keeping potential jumpers like that...six line wrasses are one of them.

I would say 5-6 small fish is what you want to shoot for in that tank if it's to be a reef, so you're already sort of maxed out just with the chromis, but I think that would be a nice look if you researched their specific habitats it could make for a real nice biotope. Any more fish than that, and it just makes it that much more difficult to keep low nutrient water which is what the corals will need to thrive...not to mention the mitigation of nuisance algae. You could do a couple more fish than that if it's going to be a FOWLR.

About the Coral Banded Shrimp...Not always reef safe, and one per tank, unless you have a 300+ gallon monster. They will hunt and kill eachother. Also, their value as a tank cleaner is negligible. I've had one for a year and he's been good, BTW.
A variety of snails in large numbers gives the most cleaning bang for the buck in a reef system. A lot of people report issues with hermit crabs eating/bothering corals, so snails are better. I have hermits myself, and they have been good, but again, seems to be hit or miss with different peoples systems.

Arragonite sand is the standard in a reef. It has the right particle shape, buffering ability, and you can be assured that it's clean and free of polutants. It probably is possible to use play sand/paver sand, but you really need to be assured it comes from a clean source and processing facility. There are dozens of fractured threads out there on the larger forums with annectodal evidence that certain brands have been reasonably blessed as reef safe, but none of those conclusions are reached scientifically, and of course it's not done by the manufacturer which is key IMO. So, that said, I would not risk it.

HTH

[chrisfont23]

Do you know anything about silica/pool filter sand? I have been told it makes a good cheap substrate for my cichlids but I don’t know about saltwater.

I would not use silica or pool sand due to the amount of crap (ie. Feldspar) that could be hazardous. Caribbean aragonite is the way to go.

What do you think of Green Brittle Starfish, Long Spine Urchin, Flame Scallop, Feather Duster (I know I’m not ready for this one yet), and Sponges? I seem to want everything but I know it won’t all work together. But I want as much different life as possible.

I would lean against a brittle starfish, unless you are FOWLR. If you are looking for a reef safe star, google "Blue Linckia Starfish" - I have one and they are great in a reef. A feather duster is harmless. You can put it anywhere there is decent flow, since it is a filter feeder. I would scrap the sponge idea too. Do some research, but I believe they require different lighting conditions than SPS/LPS and are harder to keep from what I have read. Also, if they are exposed to the air, they may die.

[jason081180]

Original Fin your advice is always valued. I don’t know about going reef in the future now. I want to have more of the colorful fish.
I will forget that Tang for now and will maybe get one when I get an 8ft long tank after I finish my basement.

I like the gobys, blennies and clowns. They always seem to do well in reefs, but you do have to be careful with how many of the same species you can put together without conflict. Clowns do well in pairs, as long as you get a large and a small one (or juveniles) they will probably become mated.

How many gobys, blennies and clowns do you think I can have in the tank?

Now I have planned,
6 Green Chromis (that I already have.)
1 Lawnmower Blenny (I would like to add a second or another kind of Blenny if they will get along)
1 Green Clown Goby (I was told they don’t get along well together but I would like more.)
2 Engineer Gobies (can I keep them with other gobies or do they do better in bigger groups?)
2 Ocellaris Clownfish (what would happen if I had 3? Wouldn’t it be more like a harem like in the wild?)
1 Flame Angel ( will get bigger than others in the tank but only about 5 in so I would think that’s ok)
1 Foxface Rabbitfish
1 Six Line Wrasse (do you agree with James that they are agreesive? I haven’t read that.)
Possibly…
Royal Gramma (what do you think of this fish? I read it’s peaceful and stays small.)
Pajama Cardinal (I like the look and they are peaceful and stay small.)


CUC
1 Coral Banded Shrimp ( I will take your advice and only get one.
10 Margarita Snails
25 Cerith Snails
30-Nassarius Snail
70 Blueleg Hermit Crab
20 Dwarf White Leg Hermit Crabs
3 Emerald Crabs
1 Brittle Starfish
1 Peppermint Shrimp
20Turbo/Astrea Snail
2Cleaner Clam
Most of these come from a cleaner package


What do you guys think of a Snowflake Eel, Feather Duster, Sponges?

[Original Fin]

The biggest potetial problem I see with keeping that many fish in a 90 is that you're never going to be able to control phosphates and nitrates. If you can't keep nitrates under 10ppm, you won't be able to keep snails, hermit crabs, urchins, shrimp, etc. alive.

What you're proposing stocking wise is way out on the fringes of what's even possible. I'd still try to steer you towards no more than 9 of those fish. If your heart is still set on maxing the tank out fish-wise, you can do one of two things:

1. Forget about invertebrates and CUC altogether. Go FOWLR and use a crushed coral substrate and vacuum regularly with a heavy rotation of large water changes.

2. Keep the inverts/cuc and also use every trick in the book for nutrient export.
(A) Large frequent water changes.
(B) Utilize a very large macro refugium. The same footprint as the DT or bigger.
(C) A large remote deep sand bed
(D) A huge skimmer
(E) media reactors for carbon and GFO
(F) A large biopelet reactor
(G) A large algae turf scrubber.

[jason081180]

Ok I didn’t know that nitrates must be under 10ppm for snails, hermit crabs, urchins, shrimp, etc.


I have changed the fish to this.
6 Green Chromis (that I already have. )
1 Lawnmower Blenny
1 Green Clown Goby (I was told they don’t get along well together but I would like more.)
2 Ocellaris Clownfish
2 Royal Gramma (what do you think of this fish? I read it’s peaceful and stays small.)


I could take maybe 3or all of the Green Chromis back to the store and get something like a Pajama Cardinal. All of these fish stay small and I hope you will think they will work better.

[Original Fin]

Thinning out the shoal of chromis is a good idea with all the others on your revised list. PJ cardinals are super peaceful...mine gets picked on by my bicolored angel. An addition I wish I never made, lol.

I have no experience with royal grammas, so hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

Looking like a much more doable stocking list now. Have you read Leebca's stickys on Setting up a FOWLR, and especially A Quarantine Process? I highly recommend quarantining all new additions. The investment in time and effort it takes for this precaution, far outweighs the trouble of having to treat all of your fish simultaneously for ich, or other very common diseases. They must be treated in separate tanks, apart from the DT, and it would need to go fallow for at least a couple months, maybe more depending on the success of the treatments.
Just to put it in perspective, each new marine fish you introduce has a 30% industry average chance of bringing ich with it. This really is a one apple spoils the bunch kind of thing.

[jason081180]

Yes I think I will take them all back to the store.
I do have a 10gal setup for the Quarantine Process.

[js_upv]

Stock slowly. around 2 fishes at a time to allow your tank system to adjust to the bioload.
If you stock it immediately, there is a possibility of Ammonia poisoning.