Green Chromis self-destruct?!

[mikecronis]

SG 1.023
PH 8.4
Amonia, Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
Temp 78F

Set up a 55 gal. tank that finished its cycle. Got 3 chromies and a blue azure. The 3 green chromis were very very active and schooling and doing well and eating flake, bloodworm, and frozen (thawed).

I put a few dried bloodworm in the tank and the chromies were chowing-down on the surface and then suddenly one chromie had it's mouth inverted and died instantly! It was very healthy and then POW! Sank to the bottom. I thought it might have just been stunned or something but it stopped moving entirely and instantly. Took it out into a small container. No movement. Other 2 are fine. VERY odd.

Also, the 2 Mexican Turbo snails and 2 Astraea snails were temp-acclimated but not drip-acclimated so the LFS might have had a different setup, I think a bit over-salty. I'm using a Hanna digital refractor system and a Hanna PH digital. It's been 36 hours since the snails are dropped, though there is a little movement. I know snails acclimate slowly to change.

[leebca]

Thanks for the report. Not sure if you wanted a response, since I don't see any questions or implication you wanted something.

Why would you not properly acclimate the snails?

Were the fish added right after the cycle was done? If so, that was too soon. You might want to review the way to setup a system given here: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

If you want or need help with your system now or in the future, you'll want to provide more information, such as the following:

How old is your tank? (When was it setup for the first time?) When did it originally cycle?
What is the size (dimensions and gallonage) of your aquarium? Does the gallonage include the volume from the sump and any refugium?
Do you use carbon, skimmer, mechanical or other chemical filtration?.
List all specimens & sizes in the tank (fish, inverts, corals, clams, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.).
Do you use a quarantine tank and procedure?
Foods you use and feeding schedules.
How long have you had this fish? If the fish was recently acquired (6 weeks or less), two more questions: Did you treat it or give it a dip before it went into the aquarium? How did you acclimate it – what procedure?
Do you use any vitamins? Fat additives? Any elemental or other additives? Please list all.
Chemistries – you gave some. Do you test for Phosphate, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium? Please give actual current numbers for everything. Have these numbers been changing lately?
Water parameters – please give actual numbers (pH and your pH range, salinity or sp. gr. & range, temperature range)
Do you see any of the following in your system: hair algae; micro algae; cyanobacteria growths (red slime algae); dinoflagellate (zooxanthellae) growths; brown algae; diatom growth; slimes; off-colored patches on rock or substrate that are not coralline; etc.?
Water changes (how much and how often).
What is your source water? (Tap water, RO water, DI water, RO/DI, distilled, etc.)
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 6 weeks.
Maintenance schedule. What have you done lately?

[mikecronis]

Wow, thanks for the response. The LFS owner indicated the Mexican Turbo Snails need not be acclimated. They haven't moved yet after 48 hours. I suspect the worst. I know that snails are normally acclimated over 24 hours per drip-method and are suseptible to alkilinity change. I aclimated the bag to the temp of 78 deg. F for about 15 minutes.

He had assured me that his setup was SG 1.024 and PH 8.4 but I suspect not. My Hanna digital refractometer indicates a 1.024 (+/- .002) and was zeroized using distilled water. My Hanna PH Meter indicates 8.39 currently.

I'm not using a refugium. Setup is bio-balls and a fabric filter in a sump, follwed by a protein skimmer and a UV "turbo" sterelization. Water was RO/UV. I had the fish for about 12 hours. I fed frozen shrimp/krill the first time after thawing. After 12 hours, I fed dried bloodworms. The chromies went into a schooling feeding frenzy. The largest suddenly stopped moving and sank fast and didn't move. The actinic lights were shielded from the glass top. He may have jumped into the glass top and knocked himself out but he never revived or breathed. Just so sudden. I've been doing saltwater tanks on an off for about 18 years now and I've never seen this happen. Very odd, like he died of shock or exitiement during the frenzy.

The only other fish I have, which I put in the tank at the same time, is a Blue Azure, which is far more mellow than the now 2 chromies. The other 2 have settled a bit since the largest suddenly died and are slightly less active.

Asside from 1 very small red hermit crab (about the size of a dime) there's nothing else in the tank.

Amonia, Nitrite is zero.
Nitrate is 20.

It's possible the RO/UV water has copper in it but I didn't suspect so. I bought a copper, calcium, and phosphate test kit from API and it should be in today. I should have checked those earlier. I'll keep you posted. If copper's up there, I'll add activated carbon above the bio-balls.

Aside from cleaning the protein skimmer, there's been no other actions or additives.

[leebca]

Is your pH meter calibrated using one or two buffer solutions? Is it calibrated using a buffer?

Carbon only removes copper down to a certain level, then can't remove anymore. The level of copper it leaves in water is enough to kill invertebrates. NOTHING removes copper from salt water down to below what will adversely affect invertebrates. I would doubt that copper is the problem, although depending on the type of RO membrane, some small ions, like the copper ion, can still pass through. Still you need to check the source water you are using and your test should be the nitrate, ammonia, nitrite, copper for fresh water, AND a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. Even if you don't get a copper reading with a test kit, there still may be enough copper there to kill invertebrates. You see, copper quantity enough to kill invertebrates is below copper test kit readings AND below what copper removal filters, carbon, and chemicals can remove.

Source water RO/UV doesn't make too much sense. You have a UV on the source water maker? Why?

You should read up on source water so you understand the different advantages to different kinds and what weaknesses there is to different treatments: WATER - Source and NSW

You still haven't told me how soon after the tank cycled did you put in the fish and you still haven't told me how you added the fish -- were the fish acclimated or not and if so, how did you acclimate them. ;)

[mikecronis]

The PH meter by Hana was calibrated at the factory. It jibes closely with the liquid Master Test kit I purchased that had 4 kits inside. I suspect the Hana PH meter test kit is pretty accurate, though it came with no test solution, however, so I can't accurately calibrate it beyond the accuracy of what the factory set it to. Still, it seems pretty close based on the lquid Master Test kit I had bought.

The source I got the water from was from a water station in-town that boasts RO/UV water. It seems pretty pure. The original setup used distilled water (half) and RO/UV water (half) of the 55 gal.

I had let the tank cycle over 2 months using live rock, adding RO water at a rate of about 1 gal every 3 days per evaporation. It went through its cycle to zero amonia and zero nitites and nitrates went to 40 after 3 weeks. At 6 weeks I did a partial water change of about 10% using the RO/UV water. At 7 weeks I repeated this and got the nitrates down to 20. At 8 weeks I added the chromies and snails, though they're not seemingly dead, they haven't moved for 4 days now. I suspect they might be comatose from shock. One of the chromies during feeding might have hit its head on the glass top, killing itself during a rather rabid feeding. It was super-active and then pop, sunk, dead. Very odd. Never seen that. Heart attack? Honestly, I don't know.

Checking the copper levels this week. I don't have activated carbon in the sump, just the balls, UV turbo, protein skimmer, and some foam media to collect the bigger pieces, and the 2 foam-catch-socks as it agitates the water from the gravity down into the sump.

[leebca]

It is very rare for a fish to die hitting the aquarium cover. They may be injured. So I would say it is still a mystery, except that the fish may not have been acclimated properly (I still have no info on this).

Some marine fish will eat almost anything; others are more picky. What you need and want to do is feed them the proper foods, regardless of what they 'like' or what they eat. Start feeding foods that are frozen that contain only food from the sea. You should read through this post: Fish Health through Proper Nutrition

In the above linked post you'll find a section: Flake, Pellet, Stick, and Disk Foods. Be sure to pay attention to that.

[mikecronis]

I think the chromie knocked himself out. Looked perfectly healthy otherwise. The other 2 are extremely active as he was even still. I find green chromis to be rather voracious.

Checked for copper, ended up zero on that. Acclimating a Mexican Turbo Snail veerrrrrryyyy slowly over 12 hours. He's moving his antennae in the specimine cup after 4 hours and sticking agressively to the bottom but hasn't moved. Mixture is now 50/50 and the cup/container is hanging into the tank.

I added activated charcoal in the sump in a bag, as well as a pad the LFS recommended that changes color if unusual chemicals are in the water and then it absorbs it.

[leebca]

In general, Mike, you are not getting the best or the most reliable advice. When your LFS recommends something, check it out from other sources and also look it up on the Internet.

Good luck!